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Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

sfchronicle.com

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Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#141

Post by sho_hn »

psunavy03 wrote: post #72
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that an independent study would be very useful to get a better idea of what's actually happening. That said, human drivers in the US are bad. We have the highest traffic crash rate among all developed countries by far. Pedestrian and cyclist crash rates have been increasing in the US, one of the only developed countries in the world that this is happening in. Much of the US remains opposed to automated traffi…

> And anecdotally it's common for friends to talk about driving 10-15 mph over the speed limit, and we know speed is the leading predictor for severity of a crash. Most US drivers, especially of higher income classes, are probably well aware that they speed and break plenty of other traffic laws on a regular basis and don't want to reckon with that fact. Because 99 44/100 percent of the time, this is not a factor. Th…

As a German, I'd like to point out that about half of the German Autobahn network do have speed limits in place, or had in 2019 (this oscillates a lot between about 30-60%, I think).

According to a government study into Autobahn fatalities that occurred in 2018, "non-adapted speed" (defined as the appropriate speed for the traffic conditions and allowing full control of the vehicle) was the cause of death in 45% of cases overall. For stretches without a tempo limit it was 46%, for stretches with one it was 50% -- this may be a good statistical for the tempo limits, as presumably there would have been more deaths on those stretches without the limits having been set.

Overall, 70% of Autobahn deaths occur on the segments without a tempo limit for a variety of reasons.

Speed limits on the Autobahn are a frequently-discussed and controversial topic in Germany, but for what it's worth, they're quite actively managed for safety reasons.

Gov source (in German): https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Zahl-de...

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#142

Post by sbuttgereit »

jessriedel wrote: post #102
paxys wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience prices for Waymo are at least double that of an equivalent Lyft/Uber ride and wait times are usually 20+ minutes. It is a great novelty but nowhere near where it needs to be to handle real scale.

Doesn’t match my experience in SF. I see 10% premium over Uber/Lyft, with Lyft and Waymo displaying wait times that are ~3 slower, but actual wait times are the same. (Uber consistently underestimates in my experience.)

I also haven't had Waymo assign a car and then decide to assign it elsewhere sometime before arrival.

I have had Uber/Lyft cars that were going to come to me and then some time before picking me up, they change their mind and I get to start a new wait for a new car/driver... worse, I've had that happen a few times in a row on some occasions.

I've seen more in the 10% premium ballpark for most Waymo rides (for just the base fare, excluding tips). There was a very stormy day once where the price shot up pretty high very quickly, but that's not the norm I see.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#143

Post by tanvach »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #108
tanvach wrote: post #7

We recently started using Waymo more often: - Quality of Lyft and Uber rides have gone down significantly. - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get. - AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver. - No chatty driver to disturb our sleeping baby. Negatives: - Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. - Pick up and drop off tend to be a small walk from requested locations…

Sorry, but any argument that basically boils down to "it's better because I don't have to talk to a driver" is not a real argument. Drivers are people too. Nevermind the fact that you are cheering for people to lose their jobs.

It's real for us. We had a ride when the driver wouldn't stop talking and the baby was trying to sleep. Not all people are nice.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#144

Post by labrador »

verdverm wrote: post #130
labrador wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's reassuring to me. I don't know why Waymo doesn't reassure safety conscious people like me by being explicit about this. As it stands, as a computer programmer and professional driver at different times in my career, whose seen a lot of unforeseen bugs and weird driving situations, I'm not putting my life in the hands of this software.

https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response

Interesting. This is about a month and half old, so they are getting more transparent. I am not reassured though because based on my reading, it appears the fleet response can't actually take over and drive the car in an emergency. I double checked with Claude AI

Me: "does it appear the remote operator can take over and drive the car if needed."

Claude: "Based on my reading of the document, it does not appear that the remote operator (referred to as "fleet response agent") can take over and drive the car directly"

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#145

Post by paulryanrogers »

gnicholas wrote: post #78
ra7 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. Waymo says they are a premium service like Uber Black because they have nice cars (Jaguar I-Pace), plus the novelty and safety of being driverless. They’re not trying to be competitive with Uber X or shared rides for in their current form.

How nice is the backseat of a Waymo compared to an Accord?

It has been explained to me that cars are an extension of ones personality, a social signal, and a hobby. So for some apparently what kind one rides in is significant.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#146

Post by mhfga »

spankalee wrote: post #83
steelframe wrote: post #2

Cool. Can I take one without my identity and travel patterns being tracked? Like, suppose I want to get picked up from work and dropped off at my girlfriend's house in San Mateo. Something I might not want my soon-to-be-ex's lawyer to be able to subpoena. There's one of those machines onboard that are all over the place in supermarkets where I can feed bills right? Or maybe not. Okay then, Luxor Cab it is. Cheaper, b…

In what was is Google a data broker? Where can you buy this data?

I do not know where/if the plebs can buy this data, but advertisers can:

https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/13381216?hl=en

"Waymo may disclose user personal information to third parties to tailor advertising and offers to your interests. Such disclosures may be considered “sales” or “sharing” of personal information under the California Consumer Privacy Act."

It is rather surprising that so many here downvote the obvious, which even non-technical Guardian journalists have found out.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#147

Post by neilyio »

athoun wrote: post #26

In my experience Waymo has been much worse compared to Lyft/Uber for longer rides. A big problem with Waymo in its current state is how its routes are terribly inefficient. It purposely avoids freeways and higher speed roads, opting to take more inefficient routes without regards to the number of stop signs, hills, and other factors which will inevitably lead to a longer travel time. It's almost like it's using a wor…

This seems like a pretty low price to pay for the huge upsides of safer rides and potentially lower car ownership, on top of the more comfortable experience discussed elsewhere here.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#148

Post by underyx »

billjings wrote: post #76
dventimi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. It'll be easier to keep the fleet on a cleaning schedule, and won't be left to the whims of individuals.

I have a good friend who's a Lyft driver. According to him, all drivers are rated on cleanliness by passengers; if you're dinged for a weird smell, there are lasting financial consequences (even if it was for reasons outside of your control, e.g. using a Lyft provided rental while repairing from a traffic accident). We'll see how Waymo handles it! It will definitely be Waymo's problem to solve, though.

Their policy from an email sent out Oct 2023:

> Many of our riders choose Waymo for the clean and consistent vehicle we offer. To ensure every rider gets this experience, we’ll be applying a vehicle cleaning fee for riders who leave a mess behind in the vehicle, such as vomit, excessive trash, and smoking odors.

> For those that self-report their mess during their ride (not including smoking), the fee will be $50. For issues that go unreported, we’ll charge riders $100 for the first violation and increase the fee for subsequent violations. Repeat trash and smoking related violations may also impact your account standing.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#149

Post by drozycki »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #39
firloop wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rarely discussed negative to Waymo is that they drive slower than human drivers. Anecdotally they can be 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic, and it's not uncommon to see human drivers do unsafe moves to pass a Waymo.

Honestly as a cyclist who takes Waymo, all the Waymos I've seen are much nicer to cyclists than any human driver. Most human drivers in SF either buzz past the 3 ft legal limit going 15 mph over (good luck when their mirror taps you at 40 mph) to try and overtake the cyclist or they'll just edge the cyclist out any time there's space to merge into the lane. Waymos usually give cyclists the whole lane comfortably and…

You probably can (although I haven’t tried). The trunk is accessible and you can flip down the seats and ride in the front.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#150

Post by [deleted] »

klipt wrote: post #121
RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference is that as an individual driver you have an incentive to keep your car clean, so that Lyft continues to dispatch riders to you. For Waymo the selective pressure is less direct and also spread across their entire fleet. They can accept a level of dirtiness, given some probability that the rider would reject the car x cost of rider requesting a (partial) refund x etc. etc. More cynically, there a…

Assuming the cars have internal cameras they should be able to surcharge riders who trash the cars.

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