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Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

theolivepress.es

291–300 of 375 posts

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#291

Barcelona has a population of ~1.7 million. The metro area surrounding is ~5.7 million. The metro area grew by ~100k in the past four years. They are freeing up ~10,000 houses over the next four years with this legislation. Barcelona built ~15,000 new properties between 2011 and 2020. The math don't math. It's a drop in the bucket. The entire impact of AirBnB + all housing built in the last decade does not offset the…

I think your comment is still fair. 100k population growth isn't the metric I think to focus on as if it's the a measure of total 'new demand', to be compared to 15k new homes as 'new supply'. After all, population growth in cities that are in high-demand like Barcelona is very much also a function of supply.

If you magically create 100k affordable homes, you'll find population growth to fill up those homes within a relatively short period (It's more sensible to look at the growth of the housing stock verus existing housing stock. I read in this thread: 15k properties built over 10 years (1.5k per year), a metro that has houses 5.7 million people, 2.5 people per home, means there are 2.3 million homes. 1.5k homes per year on 2.3m existing homes means they're adding 0.06% housing stock per year.

That simply IS a drop in the bucket. It's peanuts. Most in-demand (capital/a-tier) cities aim to construct at least 1% a year. For example, Amsterdam grew by 15% in the last 10 years, despite very stringent building requirements, green zones that can't be built, height restrictions to protect the character of the inner city, swamp land foundations and various environmental, water & electricity capacity challenges NL is facing right now.

So yes, if you're constructing at a fraction of the rate of other in-demand cities, then I would agree that eliminating tourist apartments is a band-aid solution, not a root-cause solution that works in the long term.

As for the balance of tourism vs locals, it's a tricky one. I think one thing we shouldn't forget is that 1 tourist apartment creates a lot of meaningful experiences within a year. An average tourist say of about 5 days in a city means that across a 10 year period an apartment can accommodate either one family living there full-time, or 700 different families having a holiday experience in Barcelona.

Put differently, these 10 thousand tourist homes that will come on the market, will house 10 thousand households more, and will prevent 700 thousand households from renting them on a 5 day trip to Barcelona, adding only 0.04% to the housing stock (one-time) and changing very little about the economics of housing in Barcelona for (new) locals.

It's easy to hate on tourists, but being a tourist can be a wonderful experience, that is meaningful and valuable, and shouldn't just be dismissed as some annoyance to locals. Of course all should be in balance. To speak on a personal note: I live in a city that takes in 20 million tourists a year on a population of less than 1 million, I don't work in tourism and for me it's mostly an annoyance. I definitely think we shouldn't grow the number of tourists anymore in my city, I think the same for Barcelona is true. But I also think it's worthwhile to maintain a big chunk of current tourism, even if it's annoying to me as a local, because I have no monopoly on enjoying my city. We've restricted tourist apartments to renting 30 days a year (the number of days a local is on holiday himself, and rents out his apartment), and I think that's fine. No need to eliminate it altogether though.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#292
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know your comment is a "hot take", but the thing is about Tourism as an industry, is that the places where that /is/ the industry end up not gaining any other industries. So they become stuck as a "tourism" industry place

Similar to a country sitting on a large amount of natural resources like oil/gas. You don't have to bother about making your population productive. Allowed all your productive jobs to be offshored? Mine the natural resource of tourists, as long as there was a golden age that left something interesting for them to visit.

That’s exactly right.

It is exactly like oil and “resource curse”, for many poor countries.

The pay is generally minimum wage and the only ones who see big returns are the owners of capital. It’s not a distributive industry. If you have too much of your country’s economy invested, I’d say you’re almost always looking at an unhealthy economy.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helsinki is currently an interesting case, technically having oversupply of apartments. It's because the rising interest rates cratered the buyers' budgets -- the result is a mild downward trend in prices, definitely no crash. Building companies sit on a large supply on finished unsold apartments but steadfastly refuse to lower prices even a bit. New construction has halted completely. Seems like the construction sec…

“Oversupply” is in the eye of the beholder. There’s a market clearing price for everything. The builders can hold out for a while, but the shoe has to drop eventually. Builders only make profit when building, and if your credit is extended on old projects you can’t start new ones, hence why construction has halted. The problem is covid. Pretty much everyone in any developed economy believes the inflation+interest rat…

Indeed, it's a waiting game now. The construction companies have a valid expectation that since new construction has halted, the current supply will eventually sell, and the city will even run into a state of undersupply. Only time will tell which way that goes.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#294
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AirBnBs I've stayed in the past few years have all been janky, weird, and not really any cheaper than hotels And yet, you stay in them.

If you have a family of 5 or more, hotel rooms suck - either someone sleeps on the floor or you have to find a "suite" that accommodates that. Or multiple rooms. The major travel sites all push you to multiple rooms - but lots of hotels now don't have "adjoining room" access (compared to say 30 years ago), and in one case, our 2 rooms were on different floors because of check-in time. The travel sites are picking up…

Yeah I choose AirBnbs that have a bedroom for kids aren't impossible to cosleep in. Never found a hotel that wasn't miserable even with 2 kids.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how would they know? Oh right, hidden cameras. Nothing about airbnb is attractive to me any more.

That would be very illegal in many places.

For what it's worth, they're also prohibited by Airbnb's terms of service: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/3061

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to a country sitting on a large amount of natural resources like oil/gas. You don't have to bother about making your population productive. Allowed all your productive jobs to be offshored? Mine the natural resource of tourists, as long as there was a golden age that left something interesting for them to visit.

That’s exactly right. It is exactly like oil and “resource curse”, for many poor countries. The pay is generally minimum wage and the only ones who see big returns are the owners of capital. It’s not a distributive industry. If you have too much of your country’s economy invested, I’d say you’re almost always looking at an unhealthy economy.

I would argue that while there are some similarities, there are also many differences, and that claiming it's not distributive is incorrect. The number of workers I interact with (and to whom the money I spend flows) as a tourist is quite large compared to the number of people who benefit from use of an extracted natural resource.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#297

A lot of People in “colder” countries with higher purchasing power (specially in Europe) still want to move to Barcelona now that they can work remotely. I wonder how this fact affects the prices compared to tourism apartments.

That sounds a lot like all the homeowners in California that have sold their significantly overvalued homes for 7 figures to move to states where real estate is a fraction of the cost. Generally it’s considered to be a factor in home price inflation in those cheaper states.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hotels suck. I want a hotel with no staff. Thats airbnb

If people would just rent out their flats when they are not living there that would be fine. But people and corporations buy up housing and put them on Airbnb for above market prices. Suddenly you have no more place to live for the locals who have to work in the city. And a very high priced hotel room for the tourists.

Build more housing

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, at least here in the US the ridiculous fees that are being charged by homeowners are making hotels seems worth it again, no legislation required.

We looked at hotels for a recent Italy holiday but they were a good bit pricier and in worse locations. Good locations were wayyy more expensive than an apartment. The Airbnb we went with was pretty nice, and I much prefer the experience of an apartment to a hotel room anyway. I haven't holidayed in a hotel pretty much ever, come to think of it.

I've heard that the European AirBnB experience is similar to what it was like in the US around 2016. Much more friendlier, personal, and cheaper than hotels to boot.

Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments

#300

Barcelona has a population of ~1.7 million. The metro area surrounding is ~5.7 million. The metro area grew by ~100k in the past four years. They are freeing up ~10,000 houses over the next four years with this legislation. Barcelona built ~15,000 new properties between 2011 and 2020. The math don't math. It's a drop in the bucket. The entire impact of AirBnB + all housing built in the last decade does not offset the…

This reads like the Nirvana Fallacy to me [0]. Will this move solve the problem? No, but what alternative are you comparing it to where it fares so poorly? I suspect even the staunchest proponents of unregulated construction of denser housing would only claim that it mitigates the problems of housing affordability, not that it solves them. This new STR policy could be one of many pieces of the puzzle. [0] https://en.…

Unregulated construction of denser housing solves housing affordability. It doesnt make housing free, but if we built china style mega towers with minimal regulation housing would be affordable for most people working full time.
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