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EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

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Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#71

Post by sergiosgc »

gilbetron wrote: post #61
sshine wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing stale about sitting in a Tesla. For most other EVs, it still feels like you're sitting in a car. The main reason I'd consider something other than a Tesla today: - What's the maximum range - How much range do you get for the price - What's the total cost (there are cheaper cars that look great) As far as I'm concerned, nothing is outright beating Tesla on design. It's hard to beat simplicity. Also, si…

Teslas are very stale inside. The "tablet as 99% of the interface" is horrible and should be left in the 20teens. Physical buttons for the most important interactions with the car are in all ways better. I understand why they do this, they are going all in on autonomous driving, so sure. I recently purchased an EV and when I sat in the Tesla, I hated it. I don't want to play the iPad driving game.

I know this is a popular opinion, but you'll be hard pressed to find a Tesla owner that shares your opinion. It could be self-selection, or it could be that Tesla's user interface actually works very well.

In my opinion, it's the latter, after observing how my parents adapted to driving a Tesla. I was actually concerned it'd be a hard transition, but I only had a couple "support calls" related to the car.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#72

Post by red-iron-pine »

EA-3167 wrote: post #70
gmoore wrote: post #66

I don't think this just about 'the competition getting wiser' or 'the market for EV's getting bigger'. People aren't buying Tesla because of Musk. Maybe not every missed sale is for that reason - but if you think for one minute that his behavior and his positions doesn't affect car sales - you're simply mistaken.

I think the Cybertruck and QC issues that have become weekly issues in the media can't be helping either. It's a big, ugly, expensive piece of crap and that has to leave some people wondering about the stories of panel gaps and other issues in other Tesla models. Add Musk to that, and the existence of alternatives and I'm not shocked that the Tesla bubble is deflating.

the cybertruck is such a failure. the US truck market is gigantic; the F-150 is the single best selling vehicle -- not car, not truck, but ALL consumer vehicles -- in the US.

There is a massive demand for the F-150 Lightning and a very pragmatic part of the US wants rechargable trucks esp. since they're more often than not commuter vehicles. Like, gas for these trucks is expensive. There is a market segment he could totally grab, and all he had to do was make a knock-off Nissan Titan with batteries and then dominate.

The rest of the market is saturated and is now competing on price, and Asia will dominate there. If you can't compete on price then you compete on image, reliability, safety, etc., but their poor QC, combined with Musk's increasingly unhinged behavior, suggests that the brand is of dubious value.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#73

Post by kkfx »

A small personal note as one who have choose a new BEV 2 years ago: I was choosing to avoid Tesla because while their software is objectively far less CRAP than the others it's still much more "car as a service" than the others.

I do reject surveillance capitalism so I prefer a crappy surveillant Chinese with buggier crapware but less services and even NO OTA than a western one who reach the point of selling insurance "depending on how you drive".

If our automakers want to understand that we are better at software than the rest of the world but people do want to own and control not being puppets enslaved by services things can change, otherwise they have choose to commit suicide bringing us, the west, with them.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#74

Post by emmelaich »

Mashimo wrote: post #37
emmelaich wrote: post #11

And yet "Tesla Y has taken the top spot on the sales chart, outselling the Corolla in 2023 as the world's most popular passenger car." According to https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-sell... I think the car advice journalism is hopelessly polarised and political, like everything else. Sad.

Your comment feels polarized and somewhat political.

You have misinterpreted it.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#75

Post by emmelaich »

tsimionescu wrote: post #22
emmelaich wrote: post #11

And yet "Tesla Y has taken the top spot on the sales chart, outselling the Corolla in 2023 as the world's most popular passenger car." According to https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-sell... I think the car advice journalism is hopelessly polarised and political, like everything else. Sad.

Key point being in 2023 . Meanwhile, so far in 2024, they have sold fewer cars than this time last year. This is not unexpected after a massive success in one year, except for people who like to imagine that growth continues forever.

Yep, 2023. And? This article was published a few days ago.

My point that there are some very pro-Tesla articles as well as many quite negative ones.

You and others have misinterpreted my post. Maybe I should have elaborated.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#76

Post by akmarinov »

sergiosgc wrote: post #67
akmarinov wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but someone who got a Model S in 2018 and upgraded to a Model S in 2022, is probably not going to buy the same looking car in 2025

Step back a bit and ask yourself: Why not? If it's a great car, and if it has been technologically updated, should you really care that much about a new front grill design? We consider cars more fashionable than shoes.

If it doesn’t look new and doesn’t do much new, is it a new car?

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#77

Post by ProfessorLayton »

cbeach wrote: post #46
cebert wrote: post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

What’s “stale” about the S/X, which were refreshed relatively recently, and which are still untouchable in terms of performance? The interior is wholly different from the original Model S/X and the exterior still looks great, all these years after the original release. Why must a manufacturer change a great design just to satisfy the subset of customers who have an irrational need for annual novelty? Surely the sales…

Maybe some people don't want to pay 2024 prices for a 2012 design? Front grill aside, the Model S design has barely budged since its debut, and the X is only 3 years newer. There's almost nothing differentiating a used S/X from a new one to a passerby, and that's not something everyone buying new likes.

Tesla isn't Porsche, their designs are getting stale.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#78

Post by nunez »

cebert wrote: post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

I have a 2024 Model 3 LR. It is very nice.

Yes, it is stalkless. You get used to this in minutes, and, IME, stalks feel antiquated soon after that.

It drives really well and is a much smoother and quieter ride than our 2020 Model 3 LR without sacrificing performance.

I also drove the 2022 Model S refresh. This car was also very nice, but it feels heavy and, in my opinion, doesn't command the cost they're asking for it (especially when it was, like, $110k for the LR variant). Also, it's headlights are somehow worse than the Model 3.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#79

Post by sliken »

gmoore wrote: post #66

I don't think this just about 'the competition getting wiser' or 'the market for EV's getting bigger'. People aren't buying Tesla because of Musk. Maybe not every missed sale is for that reason - but if you think for one minute that his behavior and his positions doesn't affect car sales - you're simply mistaken.

As an owner I disagree. Ya, Elon is often as ass. Tesla's are fast, safe, and have all the usual EV advantages. I'm not buying a worse car just because a billionaire is an ass.

However most people that want a tesla, have a tesla.

But they all look similar, have narrow use cases (commuting on clean roads), have minimal road clearance (except the truck). People (like me) like turn signals, shifters, and temp sensors. I bought a model 3P, the only option was tires not good for under 40F (because of damage to the tires, not traction). No option for anything else, despite it being under 40F that same day a 1.5 hour drive away.

The new model 3P (no Yp yet) made the steering wheel buttons WORSE, they don't click. Pretty much a deal killer for me, especially since they removed the turn signal and shifter stalks.

Model Y is nice, but very low for a SUV at 6.6 inches. Well below what you might need if there's a snow storm.

Rivian R2 and other competition is looking pretty good, last thing I want to think about is the rotational alignment of the wheel so I can hit a moving target of a turn signal, without even a click to let me know I hit it.

I'm plenty pleased with the ergonomics of my 3P, nearly everything either has a button, voice control, or is set rarely enough (like seat heaters) that I leave it on auto. The new 3P is a disaster in comparison and won't even warn me accurately track when it's going to freeze.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#80

Post by sliken »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #72
EA-3167 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Cybertruck and QC issues that have become weekly issues in the media can't be helping either. It's a big, ugly, expensive piece of crap and that has to leave some people wondering about the stories of panel gaps and other issues in other Tesla models. Add Musk to that, and the existence of alternatives and I'm not shocked that the Tesla bubble is deflating.

the cybertruck is such a failure. the US truck market is gigantic; the F-150 is the single best selling vehicle -- not car, not truck, but ALL consumer vehicles -- in the US. There is a massive demand for the F-150 Lightning and a very pragmatic part of the US wants rechargable trucks esp. since they're more often than not commuter vehicles. Like, gas for these trucks is expensive . There is a market segment he could…

Massive demand? My feed has mentioned numerous lack of demand, parking lots filling with unsold trucks, and significant cuts to production. "According to Ford spokeswoman Jessica Enoch, one-third of the 2,100 workers will remain at the plant starting April 1, 2024."

Apparently they are cutting from 3 crews running 2 shifts to 1 crew running 1 shift.

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