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How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

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Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#71

Post by cube13 »

nsxwolf wrote: post #67
cube13 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that much of an issue, really. The problem isn't on Airbnb's end. It's on the renters that are giving up their rental property without examining the contracts that they signed. Airbnb could probably be treated the same as subletting or renting out the property, so any clauses in the lease/association contracts that covers that should cover Airbnb. The important thing for you, as a landlord, should…

Sure, but why not actively reach out to landlords (and city governments, etc)? Wouldn't it be better for Airbnb and everyone else if both (a) and (b) became less likely to be impediments? I am in a fairly rare position where I'm feeling that I would actually be receptive to advocacy (and I'm a very stubborn person), but nobody's advocating anything to me yet. I feel like a music publisher in the year 2000 saying "Gre…

What can Airbnb do? They're not a party to any agreement that a landlord has with their tenants, and I don't think they want that.

You're a landlord. You mentioned in another thread here that you have a strict "no subletting" clause in your contracts with your renters. What could Airbnb do to change your mind? Nothing, I would wager. They don't offer insurance to their client hosts, so they're definitely not going to assist with your insurance.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#72

Post by chrisdannen »

ed209 wrote: post #12
hack_edu wrote: post #7

Again and again, people who use Airbnb to 'hack' the rental market get little sympathy from me when the chickens come to roost. If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel, they wouldn't sign you into a year-long lease. Also, and I know this has been hashed out before on these comment threads but he's grossing $30k a year on the back of his landlord. The landlord has every right to…

"If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel" - then he would have to staff it himself too, promote it and take the risk of no bookings. With a tenant he has someone making sure the place is looked after + he has a contracted income for the whole 12 months. By the sound of this place, the landlord could probably do quite well out of airbnb. But in that case, why not just approach t…

Exactly. This restraining order was the first I had heard from my landlord that he didn't want us airbnb'ing. A phone call and I would have stopped. I knew it was too good to be true.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#73

Post by cabalamat »

hack_edu wrote: post #16
ed209 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel" - then he would have to staff it himself too, promote it and take the risk of no bookings. With a tenant he has someone making sure the place is looked after + he has a contracted income for the whole 12 months. By the sound of this place, the landlord could probably do quite well out of airbnb. But in that case, why not just approach t…

Yes, though if the landlord had a hand in the operation I'd imagine it would have to be a legal business. This means taxes, insurance, wages, administration costs, permits that probably make it more trouble than its worth.

> though if the landlord had a hand in the operation I'd imagine it would have to be a legal business

Couldn't the landlord just up the rent? That way, presumably everyone would be happy.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#74

Post by nostromo »

If they're throwing the book at you -- throw it right back. Tell your landlord that you're going to find the hotel closest to your apartment and show up with printouts of their newest illegal competitor: your landlord.

It sucks to get the government involved with these disputes, but he opened the door.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#75

Post by nsxwolf »

cube13 wrote: post #71
nsxwolf wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why not actively reach out to landlords (and city governments, etc)? Wouldn't it be better for Airbnb and everyone else if both (a) and (b) became less likely to be impediments? I am in a fairly rare position where I'm feeling that I would actually be receptive to advocacy (and I'm a very stubborn person), but nobody's advocating anything to me yet. I feel like a music publisher in the year 2000 saying "Gre…

What can Airbnb do? They're not a party to any agreement that a landlord has with their tenants, and I don't think they want that. You're a landlord. You mentioned in another thread here that you have a strict "no subletting" clause in your contracts with your renters. What could Airbnb do to change your mind? Nothing, I would wager. They don't offer insurance to their client hosts, so they're definitely not going to…

They could advocate for making a "no subletting" clause less restrictive, and show some data, or at least give a rationale for why I'd want to do that.

I'm totally willing to change my mind. In fact, I'll probably take that step on my own when I rewrite my lease. I would just like to know other people's opinions on best practices instead of taking a shot in the dark, and Airbnb seems uniquely positioned to come up with something.

What would be bad is for stories like this to create a backlash from landlords against Airbnb and reduce the usefulness of the concept.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#76

Post by khuey »

heliodor wrote: post #18

In general, I'd have to agree this is a clear violation of his lease and doesn't deserve sympathy, but have you guys seen the piles and piles of legalese in these New York City leases? The lease itself doesn't deserve sympathy! For example, my lease last year from a private landlord even stipulated I'm not allowed to go to court and must use arbitration instead. I didn't think through it well, but next time I'll know…

I've never lived in NYC, so I have no idea how ridiculous the leases are there, but restrictions on subleasing are common everywhere.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#77

Post by untog »

benastan wrote: post #50
jsherry wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure he was looking for sympathy. There's very little 'woe is me' in this story. I read it as a cautionary tale more than anything.

It's definitely an interesting story. The author was offering a personal experience that was enjoyable for both the guest and the host. As he said, his guests and he often established a unique connection. On the other hand: "When I delivered my rent at the beginning of the next month, I found the management company’s office under construction. It's now a hotel. The “loft-style” rooms are now listed on Airbnb for $169…

It may well not be how AirBnB was intended to be used, but it definitely is. When I took a trip to London recently I rented an "apartment" (A room with a kitchen in it) from a guy on AirBnB that had at least seven rooms listed on the site.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#78

Post by khuey »

fleitz wrote: post #27
nsxwolf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a landlord. The language in the lease I use clearly stipulates no subletting. There are very good reasons for this. I did a background check on my tenant, not every possible person my tenant may randomly hand the keys over to, unsupervised. It's really not the same thing as having guests over. That said, I'm not opposed to including some kind of pro-Airbnb language in my next lease. This is new territory so I don…

The room is free, but the breakfast costs $150 :)

Coincidentally, exchanging food for money is also highly regulated in most developed countries.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#79

Post by ChuckMcM »

hack_edu wrote: post #7

Again and again, people who use Airbnb to 'hack' the rental market get little sympathy from me when the chickens come to roost. If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel, they wouldn't sign you into a year-long lease. Also, and I know this has been hashed out before on these comment threads but he's grossing $30k a year on the back of his landlord. The landlord has every right to…

I'd concur with the folks who say that 'shocked' is over-reaching. More like surprised the owner went straight for a restraining order rather than having a chat with him at their next meeting. If I were this guy's landlord I'd probably talk first, sue later. But that's just me. It is an interesting (and good) counter story to the one of an owner having their house trashed.

That the market is expanding is not surprising. There are a lot of empty bedrooms around. We've yet to see someone doing this with their foreclosed property but I'm sure that will happen too. Like Ebay, AirBnB seems to have a 'let the user do what they will and let whomever thinks they are harmed go after them.' A good example of this was the way software companies responded to people selling old copies of software on eBay or enterprise gear that normally requires a service contract. It may start a sort of 'race to the bottom' for some folks, we'll have to wait and see.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#80

Post by khuey »

Fizzadar wrote: post #28

On the plus side of it all; $20,000 still earned! Not surprising landlords have caught on either, a good warning to anyone else selling their spare rooms.

After taxes, legal costs, and the slight risk of getting evicted, $20,000 is not that much money.
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