Earlier quoted context omitted.
Strawman. PornHub doesn't argue against age verification, it criticizes the poorly designed implementation. Showing my ID at the liquor store to buy alcohol is not comparable to having to put my ID and PII in a poorly secured database. Databases that get breached again and again with virtually no consequences for the owner.
Sadly this is a feature not a bug for the lawmakers who wrote the laws. They want databases of PII to be breached in order for porn consumers to be publicly named and shamed without the political blowback or getting their hands dirty.
Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
51–60 of 121 posts
Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#52* They don't want the work to do the verification to be their problem, and to be legally responsible when (not if) it goes wrong.
* They know that age restricted devices are few and far between, so this is just an effort to kick the can down the road another decade.
* Even if all new devices support age restrictions, there will be a myriad of legacy devices that will continue to have access.
* They know people in the affected states will just use a VPN to another state anyway. If all the US eventually adopts these laws, they'll block the site entirely from the US and secretly fund and post informational videos on how to use VPNs to get around the restrictions.
* By blocking the states, they get more publicity for themselves, but also potentially anger a group of people into arguing their cause.
One thing that I think is interesting is that they are placing a lot of trust on reliable state-level geo-IP. They're only a few bad DB records or a BGP failure that routes people from these states to other servers away from a potentially costly fine. But maybe given the benefits above, this is just another cost of doing business for them.
Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#53Is there a way to prove your age without being identified/logging in? Surely some kind of OpenID style protocol can be invented for this with zero knowledge of personal information ending up with pornhub or which sites were being given age verification?
1. Introduce a X-PEGI HTTP header that sites can use to change the content. This would also be useful for other contexts such as cybercafes and whatnot.
2. Mandate that porn website abide by these headers.
3. Have responsible parents, lock their children's computers and add the appropriate header.
The adults then have access to the adult internet with no extra restrictions.
Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#54This seems to be a Trojan horse for even further "personalizing" (de-anonymizing) the internet. If one site can require FaceID (or any sort of attestation) then either some, all, or arbitrary sites can require the same. I'm in the same boat... banking would be nice to support "non-anonymously", but why are they chasing against porn sites vs finance sites? It's such a slippery slope imagining requiring "age verificati…
They view pornography as a purely or at least sufficiently negative presence, justifying going after it. Legislating to withhold it from children is more straightforward and politically palatable than an outright ban. The deanonymization of the internet is probably an acceptable risk more than a desired outcome.
I assume it's the same mindset as people who end free speech to crusade against hate speech.
Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#55Is there a way to prove your age without being identified/logging in? Surely some kind of OpenID style protocol can be invented for this with zero knowledge of personal information ending up with pornhub or which sites were being given age verification?
This comes up every time, but the purpose of the identity check is to ascertain (to the extent possible) that the person logging in is the person whose age you’re verifying.
If you completely separate identity from age checking using some cryptographic method, the loophole is that a single identity token with an adult age can now be used by everyone, everywhere to tell websites that they are above a certain age. So as soon as you did that, someone would just share (or steal) a token of valid age and post it online for everyone to use. Entire system subverted.
You could try to use a 3rd-party service that handles age check functions and implements some level of rate limiting to prevent this, but then you’re trusting that party to know about all of the porn websites and other places the person is trying to log in to. If that 3rd party is the government, well you’ve just created a convenient place for the government to collect stats about people logging in to porn websites.
Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#56Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#57[flagged]
According to TFA they don't oppose age verification, they oppose the required method of age verification, namely submitting personal information and IDs. They say they would support secure verification, I guess like having a digital signature from an authority, like the government. I wonder if PornHub is doing anything to help this happen, though. I doubt it...
I don’t know the answers or the right way to implement things but age verification is not an unreasonable requirement.
Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think German id cards already support a zero-knowledge proof of age.
It's the whole of the EU, it's the new EU ID card standard, with biometrics and NFC on the card itself. I'm not aware of any large scale user implementations of the protocol though (people have been getting compatible ID cards for years, but I don't know any software that uses them outside of probably cigarette vending machines in Spain). Do you know any?
I don't know if that's what you're talking about but, in Belgium for example, to fill taxes online and to do various other types of pointless administratrivia you must use your EID card, which you put in an EID card reader (typically connected by USB).
Now the EU-wide biometrics, a sheer horror (the EU court of justice ruled that the biometrics data can be used for other uses and stored in databases outside the card... although at first it was supposed to be private), isn't implemented all around the EU yet.
My EID car was emitted in 2016 and is valid until 2026 and definitely doesn't have any biometrics data in it. I don't know if the system shall already be put in place in 2026 when I'll have to renew it for another ten years.
My point being: biometrics and NFC are probably not present on a lot of EU citizens' ID cards... Yet. So, atm, it probably doesn't make much economical sense to support that system for random usecases like selling cigarettes or alcohol.
Filing my taxes is the only thing I use my EID for.
Then there are some EU countries using their own "2FA" authentication system for anything "government related" (taxes, car registration, company filings, banks login, social security, etc.), complete with physical devices, phone apps, webapps, etc. which aren't using the EU EID at all. Basically: an entire ID system, using 2FA, but bypassing the EID entirely.
I'd say overall it's still pretty much the wild west.
Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#59Is there a way to prove your age without being identified/logging in? Surely some kind of OpenID style protocol can be invented for this with zero knowledge of personal information ending up with pornhub or which sites were being given age verification?
It's literally impossible.
You can either have a zero knowledge system where the tokens are immediately compromised and widely shared that provides no authentication whatsoever, or you can have a system that has the ability to revoke compromised tokens that is not zero knowledge.
Or as we are likely to get, you can have a system that is both easily compromised and does not have zero knowledge, and the age verification industry is simply engaged in industrial scale lying to try and get themselves written into law...
Re: Pornhub prepares to block five more states rather than check IDs
#60[flagged]
I literally cannot remember the last time I had to show proof of age to buy tobacco or alcohol. I'm middle aged - mid 40s, in fact - and places don't ask. If I order alcohol, the reason I'm showing ID is to prove that yes, it was me that ordered it instead of someone else (and I'm showing my ID at the liquor store). I've only bought porn twice - once a video and once a magazine full of naked men. I didn't get carded…