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Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

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Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#81

Post by OJFord »

MBCook wrote: post #52
OJFord wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had that be a problem though? In my experience USB (any type) pulls out anyway. I do find MagSafe appealing, but not enough, not if it's not what everyone's using. If it were a feature of USB-C it'd be great; as a separate thing, no, I'd rather have a non-magnetic USB-C. (Haven't used the MagSafe port or cable on mine yet, and don't expect to.)

MagSafe saved my butt a few times in the past. Full disclosure that was pre-USB-C. I haven’t “tested” USB-C in that way. But it’s a really great feature. And frees up a USB-C port for other use.

I agree it's a great feature, it just doesn't trump 'universal' for me. At my desk I want one cable to plug in, and MagSafe can't be it. Travelling if I take USB-C it can charge my phone and earphones too, transfer data if I needed to even.

It's just never going to be such a great feature for me to bother finding/carrying the different & extra cable, personally.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#82

Post by majewsky »

simpaticoder wrote: post #9

My first-gen Framework 13 with Ubuntu is usable, but has major issues around power. Battery life is very poor compared to ordinary laptops (I get ~3 hours of web browsing and light coding), and compared to M-series Macbooks (which have extraordinary battery life >8 hours) it is abysmal. Suspend/resume often fails in strange ways, and occasionally even power on is problematic (e.g. battery is full but it won't turn on…

> battery is full but it won't turn on without being plugged into a charger

This is a known issue with specifically the first-gen model (i.e. Intel 11th Gen mainboard). The rechargable coin-cell RTC battery is only charged from the USB-C charger, not from the internal LiPo battery. When the coin cell degrades, it cannot hold a charge for long anymore, so you need to connect the notebook to external power to turn it on even if the battery is full.

Framework has acknowledged the issue and provides a replacement part free of charge that you can solder onto the main power rail of the notebook. Since I have no experience with soldering, I had a friend assist me with the soldering part, and now the issue is gone for me.

I can't paste the link right now because my workplace's firewall blocks the frame.work website for whatever reason, but search on the community forum for "RTC Battery Replacement" and it will give you the thread with instructions for how to get the replacement part.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#83

Post by ericpauley »

kelnos wrote: post #56
cortesoft wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, MagSafe is way better for charging than USB-C, since you can’t damage it if the cable is pulled.

In 20 years of having laptops, I have never ever damaged the laptop or power cable by accidentally pulling on it or tripping over it, despite pulling or tripping on it fairly frequently. For some number of years during that time when I had a Mac laptop with MagSafe, I very often accidentally knocked the power cable out, which was always super annoying. I've been using USB-C for charging on three different laptops ove…

Good for you. I know someone who tripped on a power cable and broke their toe, leading to years of complications. Events with odds lower than 1/20yr can still be worth considering. For what it’s worth I have never used MagSafe on my MacBook but don’t mind that it’s there.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#84

Post by wrsh07 »

macNchz wrote: post #59
wrsh07 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is right, but optionality is valuable. I'm curious if a $500 mini PC plus a bottomed out mb air would suffice (maybe not! Having all your stuff on your laptop can be useful) For all that, I haven't considered a Mac mini even though I'm probably an ideal user. It doesn't help that it's on the m2 instead of m3, though. (Or m4, which is in iPads?) I probably should

I have a high-end DIY Linux desktop and a base model M1 Air that I got for $750. I think it’s a good pairing. The laptop works well as sort of a thin client to the desktop for real work. If I didn’t have the desktop I’d definitely want more RAM, and probably a machine with a fan. Despite what many people say, I’ve had no trouble getting it to run OOM or start thermal throttling. I wanted to try a Linux laptop, but in…

At Google we all had good Linux desktops at our desk and did work via ssh and I rather enjoyed it.

I mostly don't even need a powerful desktop (but the cost curve is so attractive vs laptops)

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#85

Post by nordsieck »

MBCook wrote: post #49
linguae wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have a Framework 13, and I agree that Apple’s ARM laptops have amazing performance per watt. The reason I have a Framework 13 instead of an ARM Mac is user-serviceability and cost savings. There is 32GB of RAM in my Framework, and at any time I could choose to upgrade to 64GB whenever necessary. However, because RAM in ARM Macs is integrated into the system and is not a separate user-replaceable component, I m…

I’m firmly in team Mac. And I really don’t care about upgradability that much. I’m OK with buying up front. But Apple’s BTO prices are, as everyone knows, totally insane. Combined with pathetic base amounts it really burns people. I know a lot of Mac fans who keep putting off upgrades because it costs so much to get a decent config.

> But Apple’s BTO prices are, as everyone knows, totally insane.

I think the thing to understand is that the only well priced configurations that Apple offers are the base models.

If you want more ram/storage, it's almost always better to upgrade to the appropriate level CPU that gives you that "for free". The only exception is if you want to run the absolute maximum amount of ram; there's nothing after the Ultra, so you just have to grit your teeth and smile while Apple takes their pound of flesh.

Hopefully Apple's newfound interest in AI will spur them to increase the amount of ram they include across the board.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#86

Post by Fluorescence »

commandersaki wrote: post #75
MBCook wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m firmly in team Mac. And I really don’t care about upgradability that much. I’m OK with buying up front. But Apple’s BTO prices are, as everyone knows, totally insane. Combined with pathetic base amounts it really burns people. I know a lot of Mac fans who keep putting off upgrades because it costs so much to get a decent config.

I think apple BTO prices are competitive with large laptop vendors but not with Framework. For example a m3 pro 16”/96gb/2tb costs 7700aud. A dell with 64gb and 2tb costs at least 6000aud. hp zbook with 64gb/2tb costs like 8000aud and that’s after discount. Obviously the dell and hp may shine in one or two things but are probably inferior in many ways. I’m not sure how warranty stacks though, applecare for 3 years is…

Hmm.

> a m3 pro 16”/96gb/2tb costs 7700aud

You can't buy an m3 pro with more than 36GB in the UK. A Max with 64GB is £4,699 (8,900 AUD).

A 64GB/2GB Dell Alienware is £2,399 (4,550 AUD).

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#87

Post by rsynnott »

> What I want to criticize is that Apple would rather re-add Magsafe than add another USB-C port, making one wonder if they are really clearing out old inventory.

Nope; it's not the same as the old MagSafe (it's actually the _third_ incompatible version).

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#88

Post by commandersaki »

Fluorescence wrote: post #86
commandersaki wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think apple BTO prices are competitive with large laptop vendors but not with Framework. For example a m3 pro 16”/96gb/2tb costs 7700aud. A dell with 64gb and 2tb costs at least 6000aud. hp zbook with 64gb/2tb costs like 8000aud and that’s after discount. Obviously the dell and hp may shine in one or two things but are probably inferior in many ways. I’m not sure how warranty stacks though, applecare for 3 years is…

Hmm. > a m3 pro 16”/96gb/2tb costs 7700aud You can't buy an m3 pro with more than 36GB in the UK. A Max with 64GB is £4,699 (8,900 AUD). A 64GB/2GB Dell Alienware is £2,399 (4,550 AUD).

Yeah, I got the naming wrong but the prices right-ish (actually 7800aud not 7700). That'd be a m3 max 16"/96gb/2tb which is 4799ukp, but you're right the spec equivalent dell alienware is 2399ukp.

But in australia the dell alienware is 6000ish aud, and the xps 16 (which is a non starter as it has a touch sensitive esc/function keys and invisible touchpad) is also 6000 aud. I guess we're paying some crazy tax on the alienware. Also the alienware is 18" which depending on what you want is good or bad (personally something I wouldn't want).

Edit: In the usa m3 max 16/96gb/2tb is 4699usd, alienware 16" 64gb/2tb is 2249usd.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#90

Post by luyu_wu »

simpaticoder wrote: post #9

My first-gen Framework 13 with Ubuntu is usable, but has major issues around power. Battery life is very poor compared to ordinary laptops (I get ~3 hours of web browsing and light coding), and compared to M-series Macbooks (which have extraordinary battery life >8 hours) it is abysmal. Suspend/resume often fails in strange ways, and occasionally even power on is problematic (e.g. battery is full but it won't turn on…

First gen Framework (11th gen) here. It's different your experience is from mine. I get typically 8-10 hours (more than enough for a full school day) on my laptop, although I have done numerous power optimizations.
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