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Ladybird browser spreads its wings

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Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#81

Post by lukan »

PrayagS wrote: post #77
lukan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every open source software has spyware and ads activated by default, while marketing itself as privacy friendly. Yes, can all be deactivated, I also use FF, but I do not trust Mozilla anymore.

Ikr. They're up to some questionable decisions since long. - Acquire companies like Pocket, Anonym in multi-million dollar deals and also the millions in bonuses that the CEO likes to enjoy. - At the same time, no significant expenditure towards developing its core software. Firefox is still ridden with bugs. They even went as far as firing the people that used to work on Servo, Rust, WASM, etc. I think it's clear to…

"They even went as far as firing the people that used to work on Servo, Rust, WASM, etc."

And at the same time greatly raising compensation for the CEO, despite shrinking numbers.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#82

Post by lukan »

lawn wrote: post #76
lukan wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Install a new version of firefox, have a look in settings under "data" (or whatever they call it in english). There you will see "studies" as activated, which is cryptic talk for ad tracking. And more recently, literal tracking for a advertisement company. And as a bonus, those were added and activated as features via update, without telling. At least for me. (and paid ads you have on the home screen)

> And as a bonus, those were added and activated as features via update, without telling. At least for me. Ouch, they were new to me and also activated.

Yep, stuff like this makes me question many things. I mean in a sane world this should be enough to sue them into oblivion. But the general bar in that regard is so low, that apparently even open source companies can do it as default.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#83

Post by surgical_fire »

voidwtf wrote: post #35

I don't want to discourage the developers working on this project, but I'm curious why we're still writing applications that will almost certainly execute or process hostile content in languages that don't maintain strict memory safe contract? Have we not learned our lesson yet, or am I misunderstanding the situation? I believe it was a Microsoft study that linked unsafe memory access to ~70% of exploit chains.

> but I'm curious why we're still writing applications

> Have we not learned our lesson yet,

"We"? Do you speak in the name of the developer? What an odd choice of pronoum.

Either way, if you are adamant about writing a new browser in your "memory-safe language" of choice, be the change you want made. Go ahead and write a new browser from scratch. Show the world how it should be done.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#84

Post by torstenvl »

oriolid wrote: post #78
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

legalese is a subset of English. BTW Rust (or any other so called "memory safe" language) is not the equivalent of legalese, it's the equivalent of using French because it's the "language of diplomacy" (that's why many English words come from French) instead of English. If you're not proficient in French, French legalese won't save you.

Could you explain your thinking a bit more? To me the "language of diplomacy" equivalent for computers sounds more like C calling convention, HTTP and XML or JSON.

Nobody is saying there is a programming equivalent of the language of diplomacy. He said that using Rust to achieve memory safety is analogous to using French for diplomacy, in that, whatever value the language itself might bring to that goal, you are not likely to achieve it if you are not proficient.

If you are not proficient in French, you likely ought not to conduct diplomacy in French.

If you are not proficient in Rust, you likely ought not to achieve memory safety by writing everything in Rust.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#85

Post by znpy »

jraph wrote: post #74
voidwtf wrote: post #35

I don't want to discourage the developers working on this project, but I'm curious why we're still writing applications that will almost certainly execute or process hostile content in languages that don't maintain strict memory safe contract? Have we not learned our lesson yet, or am I misunderstanding the situation? I believe it was a Microsoft study that linked unsafe memory access to ~70% of exploit chains.

I'll take an alternative browser engine, even if it's written in C++. > I'm curious Is it really curiosity though? Because the answer is straightforward, the project started as a hobby, the developer picked whatever language they were proficient in. Andreas is open with the fact that he started Serenity OS and LadyBird as a rehab project. Put too much barrier in this setting (like learning a new language and all the…

>> I'm curious

> Is it really curiosity though?

I'm kind of annoyed at this whole train of comments ("I'm curious..."). In so many occasion I see something cool and the main comment track is "why hasn't this been writte in rust?" (or some other allegedly safe/better programming language).

It's like seeing a beautiful painting being painted and arguing about the kind of paintbrush the painter has used.

It's so sad.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#86

Post by skywal_l »

KronisLV wrote: post #31
imiric wrote: post #13

I'm very happy that projects like this exist, and hope that they succeed in their mission. With the current state of the web, filled with mostly spam content designed to generate ad revenue and to exploit the user, accessed from mainstream browsers produced by large corporations that are increasingly trying to do the same thing, web users are being squeezed from all sides. Using the web today is a hostile experience,…

> Using the web today is a hostile experience, and the only safe haven from all this nonsense is using community-supported alternative browsers, that are really stripped down versions of mainstream ones, and relying heavily on ad, cookie, JavaScript and other blockers, which may stop working at any point. I think the actual root of the problem is that the people and organizations developing and running the sites do w…

I found NoScript to be a good alternative. It disables JS by default but then you can reenable per page but also per domain. You only enable just what you need for the page to work and sometimes only temporarily.

I still need to enable things here and there but it's a fairly easy straightforward process.

Couple this with uBlock and firefox Container (where I am logged to google only for gmail in a specific container) and the web is pleasant again

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#87

Post by Findecanor »

Lammy wrote: post #30
dsalfdslfdsa wrote: post #21

I was recently browsing their docs, and kept finding references to choosing a "browser chrome" (options including Qt and AppKit). Is this some new usage of the word "chrome" that I'm not familiar with, or does it use chrome libraries?

Google co-opted an already common term into a Proper Noun™. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/Chrome http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/jargon/html/C/chrome.html Netscape called it that and thus so does Mozilla. Try loading up `chrome://branding/content/about-logo.png` for an example of the chrome URI scheme in Firefox!

Around the turn of the century, the "Mozilla" browser used to support themes for its chrome, written in XUL [0], which also supported inline images. The themes were available in a repository called "Chrome Zone".

Google later appropriated also the name "Chrome Zone", for a chain of retail stores in the UK. [1]

[0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL

[1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_Zone

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#88

Post by JimDabell »

nutrie wrote: post #29
manuelmoreale wrote: post #10

I’m irrationally excited for this project. The idea of a community built browser is incredibly appealing considering the current landscape where all browsers are either Chrome, Chrome in a trench coat, or Firefox

I don't understand what is wrong with Firefox. It is open-source, highly configurable and reasonably secure (if you have the time to configure). Yes, it has shortcomings, but what doesn't.

Even Mozilla doesn’t seem to care about Firefox; why should anybody else?

The primary value in Firefox existing right now is that the web standards process becomes dysfunctional when there are only two major browser rendering engines, but that is fading away with Firefox’s market share. Hopefully Ladybird can gain enough momentum to matter there because it doesn’t seem like Gecko can maintain its relevance.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#89

Post by oefrha »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #3

For a newbie like me who isn’t like a software eng wizard but is willing to put an hour or two every day, is a project like this a great way for me to learn and contribute? Or is it still so pre-alpha that you need deep domain knowledge to contribute and have an impact?

I’ll be that guy and point out that if you have to ask this question, it may not be the best personal fit. Unpaid open source contributions work the best and last the longest when they scratch your personal itch. Find a bug or a missing feature in a piece of open source software you use all the time; find an abandoned project you need and try to improve it; or build something you want but doesn’t yet exist. Forcing your way into open source through a large project that is not in any way special to you in order to learn, build your personal brand, etc. may not be the most sustainable source of motivation. But who knows, maybe that also works for some people.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#90

Post by flohofwoe »

dsalfdslfdsa wrote: post #21

I was recently browsing their docs, and kept finding references to choosing a "browser chrome" (options including Qt and AppKit). Is this some new usage of the word "chrome" that I'm not familiar with, or does it use chrome libraries?

The term "window chrome" is common to describe the parts of a window that are outside the client rectangle and managed by the window system (titlebar, scroll bars, resize widgets etc..). AFAIK the term also predates "Chrome, the browser" by a long time.
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