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I must be crazy

splinter.com.au

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Re: I must be crazy

#81
post #74
post #49

Free advice: should there ever be a gap between the present revenues of your apps and your family's immediate financial needs, a week or six of freelancing iOS development will plug it very quickly indeed. It isn't my market, but I-heard-it-on-the-grapevine hourly rates are in the US$150~$200+ region.

The iOS development rates at Odesk for North Americans never crosses 50/hr, most relevant seem to hover at 30/hr.

I'm struggling a little with how to word this comment. The straightforward way is "If people off oDesk are paying Americans $150 an hour for iOS development, and people on oDesk are paying Americans $30 an hour for iOS development, then American iOS developers should probably not source clients on oDesk."

Re: I must be crazy

#82
post #7

Good on ya mate! I'm a fellow Aussie who's just done the same thing - six days to go until I can build my robots full time.

Whoah Robots? Tell us more please.

Looks like he is solving the problem with projectors and motion sensing: http://www.triplepointrobotics.com/blog/ (from his HN profile)

Re: I must be crazy

#83
post #71
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain exactly what about the service delivered is different with you living in Vietnam versus you living in, I don't know, Central Japan? Or, for that matter, living in whatever "One town too far to come into the office in San Francisco" is? I mean, sure, you have a cost of living which will let you attempt to compete on price for the worst projects from the worst customers, but why not just deliver desirab…

This comment is willfully ignorant. Are you just upset that he is competing on price? Given his cost structure it makes perfect sense for him to want to deliver desirable projects for great customers at a great price. Clearly you know that there is no fixed price that the market has decided professional iOS development is worth. And now that there is one additional professional iOS developer working from Vietnam the…

[deleted]

Re: I must be crazy

#84
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like every other software market, outsourcing firms are eating up the bottom end of the iOS development market at rates far below that. But I imagine if you can cultivate the right kind of local clients you can do well. Since you mention it, if anybody needs some freelance help with an app I'm available. As a self-outsourced American currently living in Vietnam I can significantly undercut $150/hr. ;)

Can you explain exactly what about the service delivered is different with you living in Vietnam versus you living in, I don't know, Central Japan? Or, for that matter, living in whatever "One town too far to come into the office in San Francisco" is? I mean, sure, you have a cost of living which will let you attempt to compete on price for the worst projects from the worst customers, but why not just deliver desirab…

Well said. Long ago I made a point of cutting my consulting rate in half when I was working from the beach. I still put plenty away into savings and got to spend my free time climbing or doing whatever I wanted in a nice tropical environment. Life was good.

Then one time I decided to not cut my rate in half on a quote. Nobody but me seemed to notice.

So now I don't do that anymore. Life's even gooder.

Re: I must be crazy

#85
post #5

>I’m going to make, market, and hustle my iPhone apps like my life depends on it Why can't I find a link or description to them anywhere in your post? I’m the breadwinner with a wife and daughter to support, My wife is due to have our second child in 8 weeks, We’re currently building a house, and the builder’s bills will soon arrive I may be the only person to say it, but I don't think quitting your day job at this t…

> My wife is due to have our second child in 8 weeks > I’m going to make, market, and hustle my iPhone apps like my life depends on it Sounds like his child's life will quite literally depend on it.

So you think, if he can't sell enough iPhone apps, his child will literally die?

Re: I must be crazy

#86
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain exactly what about the service delivered is different with you living in Vietnam versus you living in, I don't know, Central Japan? Or, for that matter, living in whatever "One town too far to come into the office in San Francisco" is? I mean, sure, you have a cost of living which will let you attempt to compete on price for the worst projects from the worst customers, but why not just deliver desirab…

When you don't know how to sell yourself, freelancers (and businesses!) compete based on price. It's the "obvious" choice but it wrongly assumes that's how potential customers make their purchase decisions. EDIT (additional context): When my wife quit her job at Intuit to start Copy Hackers, she also had to figure out how much to charge for her freelance copywriting work. After some investigation, she found that ther…

But did she get that business from elance or from other contacts?

I signed up for elance, looked at a few projects, and found myself seriously undercut (and I don't want to compromise on quality or bid on projects over my head).

If I do get some projects at what I believe is a correct market rate (and it's not very high), it probably won't be thanks to elance (which looks like a great website, don't get me wrong).

Re: I must be crazy

#87
post #16
post #5

>I’m going to make, market, and hustle my iPhone apps like my life depends on it Why can't I find a link or description to them anywhere in your post? I’m the breadwinner with a wife and daughter to support, My wife is due to have our second child in 8 weeks, We’re currently building a house, and the builder’s bills will soon arrive I may be the only person to say it, but I don't think quitting your day job at this t…

You're totally right. And also, some have pointed out (quite correctly) that amy and patrick recommend starting out on the side, so let me explain further: * I have enough savings to last a few months if i sell my motorbike * I'm reasonably well connected and, if all goes badly, getting an ios contract/job in a few months time won't be hard * I already have a dozen apps on the app store, bringing in between $100-$150…

> i'm unable to code on the train any more which used to be brilliant

i imagine the train ride would be full of interrupts, maybe you could convince me otherwise about your commute system

Re: I must be crazy

#88
post #74
post #49

Free advice: should there ever be a gap between the present revenues of your apps and your family's immediate financial needs, a week or six of freelancing iOS development will plug it very quickly indeed. It isn't my market, but I-heard-it-on-the-grapevine hourly rates are in the US$150~$200+ region.

The iOS development rates at Odesk for North Americans never crosses 50/hr, most relevant seem to hover at 30/hr.

Odesk and the others aren't a good indicator of the average hourly rate for this sort of work.

Someone charging a freelance rate of $30/hour in north america for iOS work is either not invested much in learning the platform in-depth and therefore won't be able to do much more than populate table views and wire up transitions, or they'll tackle a complicated project at that rate and make a mess for someone else to clean up.

Re: I must be crazy

#89

I’m going to make, market, and hustle my iPhone apps like my life depends on it. I've been doing exactly this for the last year and I'm very close to switching my focus back to web development. From what I can tell the easy money in the app store is long gone and conditions do not favor the lone developer now. I have two iPad apps that frequently appear in the "What's Hot" list for music and if the revenue they gener…

I've been doing this full-time for about 2 years now, with some products that have taken off and others that have entirely flopped.

I agree that the "easy money" (e.g. air horns and flashlights) is entirely gone, but there is still a ton of opportunity available if you're willing to put in the work. The type of work necessary now is 1) different than it was 3 years ago and 2) different than what would be required of a web app. The App Store has evolved quite a bit over time and the bar seems to be getting set higher and higher.

In particular, user experience, design, and polish are supremely important on the App Store. I think unfortunately a lot of indie developers (especially engineering types, including myself at the start) tend to overlook this aspect - either from lack of time, energy, or budget, and as a result they make a poor first impression and never really build a following. On the App Store, it's more difficult to ship a MVP and iterate because users expect quite a lot. (You can still do it, but the 'M' might be in different areas than you would expect.)

On the other hand, there are a ton of iOS devices on the market right now, that number is continuing to grow, and that means there are many many users willing to put down money for your software. Apple takes care of the details of collecting payments and makes it easy for users to buy your app.

That said, there are definite tradeoffs to selling via the App Store vs selling on the web.

- You're definitely cognizant of the fact that you're playing in someone else's walled garden, and this can bite you if you're not careful. - Like you mentioned, the sales funnel is a black box, which means it's very difficult to measure or optimize. - Traditional advertising methods (e.g. AdWords) typically don't work cause app prices are too low.

I've also done both and prefer the App Store by far - business aspects aside, there's just something really fun about making iPad apps.

Re: I must be crazy

#90

I’m going to make, market, and hustle my iPhone apps like my life depends on it. I've been doing exactly this for the last year and I'm very close to switching my focus back to web development. From what I can tell the easy money in the app store is long gone and conditions do not favor the lone developer now. I have two iPad apps that frequently appear in the "What's Hot" list for music and if the revenue they gener…

The What's Hot list is useless since it's not on the device. It's likely algorithmic as well. The only list that matters is the curated featured list on the device.

The "What's Hot" list is on the device. When you go to the Featured apps, it's a gray button at the top.
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