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Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

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Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#51

Post by lawgimenez »

MBCook wrote: post #41

Unfortunately this review doesn’t mention the thing that I’ve come to adore since my M1 (now M3) Air: it’s dead silent since there is no fan. And in my normal use it never gets warm. Ever. I haven’t tried maxing out a game. I’m sure it warms some, but from what I’ve heard it won’t get hot. I know you can get better performance elsewhere. I don’t care. Having my laptop never get hit is a total game changer. My last 2-…

My M2 Air gets very warm when moslty opening either Xcode or Android Studio’s emulator.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#52

Post by MBCook »

OJFord wrote: post #28
cortesoft wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, MagSafe is way better for charging than USB-C, since you can’t damage it if the cable is pulled.

Have you ever had that be a problem though? In my experience USB (any type) pulls out anyway. I do find MagSafe appealing, but not enough, not if it's not what everyone's using. If it were a feature of USB-C it'd be great; as a separate thing, no, I'd rather have a non-magnetic USB-C. (Haven't used the MagSafe port or cable on mine yet, and don't expect to.)

MagSafe saved my butt a few times in the past.

Full disclosure that was pre-USB-C. I haven’t “tested” USB-C in that way.

But it’s a really great feature. And frees up a USB-C port for other use.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#53

Post by zamadatix »

ghostpepper wrote: post #39
zamadatix wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One key thing not mentioned is OS support. OS support is the final section, they gave it a point for having solid Linux support.

That section should be called Linux support then, because Macs clearly support macOS better than anyone else. I'd even argue that macs support macOS better than any hardware supports linux.

The author's commentary is definitely personal and biased towards that. That said macOS isn't necessarily the golden example of perfect hardware support by its OEM either, e.g. Linux supported hardware accelerated GIC support on Apple silicon 2 years before Apple did. macOS generally does better about it than 99% of other options do their respective hardware but I'd leave room for exception.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#54

Post by MBCook »

ggregoire wrote: post #38

> Operating System: [...] I already use Linux, so the Framework 13 wins. Should probably start the review with this. I'm not gonna buy a Framework 13 if I want to use macOS, and vice versa.

I didn't know the author’s opinion, and I skipped that section given I know my own preferences already.

But I think it’s fine it wasn’t up top. If you want a Mac you already know you have to buy an Apple computer. If you want to run Linux natively you likely already know you don’t want a Mac.

(Yes, Asahi exists and has done an amazing job, but the Mac doesn’t have official Linux support and the Framework does)

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#55

Post by MBCook »

luyu_wu wrote: post #5

Just a random thought, it's amazing how competitive a startup can be when compared to a company that has orders of magnitude more R&D funds! Tradtionally, I would think hardware products would have a relatively large moat!

Without numbers/longer hands on impressions it’s hard to know.

The Mac may have way faster storage. Or higher bandwidth RAM. Or run cooler. Or start faster. Or longer battery life. Or a better trackpad. Or keyboard.

Or not.

A lot of stuff in both machines is commodity parts. Apple doesn’t make its own screens and the Air is the worst screen their offer (I love it, but it’s relative). They don’t make storage chips or RAM chips or WiFi chips. A lot of stuff any company could do.

And, even ignoring the RAM/SSD prices, Apple loves their 30-40% margins. If Framework is willing to make less per machine they have more to spend on each unit even at the same price. Some of this is lost to volume discounts they don’t get, but it still helps.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#56

Post by kelnos »

cortesoft wrote: post #11
ericpauley wrote: post #2

> What I want to criticize is that Apple would rather re-add Magsafe than add another USB-C port, making one wonder if they are really clearing out old inventory. This is so minor, but clearly MagSafe isn’t about clearing out old inventory because it’s a different connector than old MagSafe.

Also, MagSafe is way better for charging than USB-C, since you can’t damage it if the cable is pulled.

In 20 years of having laptops, I have never ever damaged the laptop or power cable by accidentally pulling on it or tripping over it, despite pulling or tripping on it fairly frequently. For some number of years during that time when I had a Mac laptop with MagSafe, I very often accidentally knocked the power cable out, which was always super annoying.

I've been using USB-C for charging on three different laptops over the past 8 years or so, and I've been perfectly happy with it.

I'm sure some people have damaged laptops with non-MagSafe charging, but I've been more annoyed with MagSafe than I think it's worth.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#57

Post by MBCook »

langsoul-com wrote: post #23

Cannot really compare framework to air m2. Just the chip alone makes a major difference. But most importantly, being modular adds extra weight and size. So completely different leagues. Better off comparing the arm windows laptop to the air m2

You’re right they’re both aiming for a very different ideal. Mac is more towards integrated/small/light/seamless. Framework is more expandable/serviceable/upgradable/tinkerable.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#58

Post by MBCook »

MostlyStable wrote: post #8
dheera wrote: post #3

I have a Framework, because I much prefer Linux, and don't want to spend more than market prices on SSD and RAM. It's the best Linux laptop I have ever owned. However, I do have to admit the Macbook just has a better build quality, and Framework could up their game here. Especially the bezel, the general "gritty" feel of the aluminum, the cheap feeling to the pluggable modules. Reflections in the screen are not mirro…

Some of those could definitely be improved, but also, I do think that it is much, much easier to build a "premium" feeling product when you can seal the whole thing together and don't have to worry about repairs or upgrades. It's one reason while, why I'm personally a big fan of framework and their philosophy (my 16 just arrived the other day), I also know that they aren't for everyone. Repairable, upgradeable, modul…

It’s easy to avoid seams if you don’t have them in the first place by milling a huge chunk of the laptop one out one chunk of aluminum.

But that’s expensive. And I agree with you it’d likely make upgrades/repairs much harder or more expensive and may remove modularity all together.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#59

Post by macNchz »

wrsh07 wrote: post #19
flakiness wrote: post #6

The author doesn't care about either the keyboard or the display because external parts are used... Maybe a mini PC is a better option for him?

I think this is right, but optionality is valuable. I'm curious if a $500 mini PC plus a bottomed out mb air would suffice (maybe not! Having all your stuff on your laptop can be useful) For all that, I haven't considered a Mac mini even though I'm probably an ideal user. It doesn't help that it's on the m2 instead of m3, though. (Or m4, which is in iPads?) I probably should

I have a high-end DIY Linux desktop and a base model M1 Air that I got for $750. I think it’s a good pairing. The laptop works well as sort of a thin client to the desktop for real work. If I didn’t have the desktop I’d definitely want more RAM, and probably a machine with a fan. Despite what many people say, I’ve had no trouble getting it to run OOM or start thermal throttling.

I wanted to try a Linux laptop, but in the end I felt having a ton of battery life was ultimately my top priority when away from my desk. I don’t much care for what Apple is doing with MacOS, but their hardware really is great.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#60

Post by zamadatix »

MBCook wrote: post #55
luyu_wu wrote: post #5

Just a random thought, it's amazing how competitive a startup can be when compared to a company that has orders of magnitude more R&D funds! Tradtionally, I would think hardware products would have a relatively large moat!

Without numbers/longer hands on impressions it’s hard to know. The Mac may have way faster storage. Or higher bandwidth RAM. Or run cooler. Or start faster. Or longer battery life. Or a better trackpad. Or keyboard. Or not. A lot of stuff in both machines is commodity parts. Apple doesn’t make its own screens and the Air is the worst screen their offer (I love it, but it’s relative). They don’t make storage chips or…

> They don’t make storage chips or RAM chips

They use 3rd party NAND and DRAM but the controllers for each are part of their custom SoC (along with their CPU and GPU) and things are a little bit different than how anyone else does it with integrated solutions as a result. I believe the USB/thunderbolt are part of their custom SoC too. Some of the microcontrollers for other functionality (secure enclave, camera/microphone processors, touchpad and the like) are outside the SoC but custom. Wi-Fi is still a standard Broadcom chip, for now at least :).

It's somewhat disappointing how much cool customer hardware is limited to just Apple products to be honest.

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