Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

quail.ink

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 98 posts

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#41

Post by MBCook »

Unfortunately this review doesn’t mention the thing that I’ve come to adore since my M1 (now M3) Air: it’s dead silent since there is no fan. And in my normal use it never gets warm. Ever.

I haven’t tried maxing out a game. I’m sure it warms some, but from what I’ve heard it won’t get hot.

I know you can get better performance elsewhere. I don’t care. Having my laptop never get hit is a total game changer. My last 2-3 MBPs (Intel) all got hot and it got worse with each model.

Do something stressful in the slightest? There’s the WOOSH.

I wasn’t expecting to care as much but it’s such a huge QoL thing. I’m not going back to fans. I’m not going back to a hot keyboard. I’m done with it.

If I were to get a Framework (or anything else) the ability to get a cool silent (or very close) configuration would be a huge concern for me.

Do they offer that? Ive never looked. I’ve been hoping the new ARM PCs might be able to match, at least as more appear, but I read the initial ones all have fans.

Outside of the fact I was hoping for comments on that, it was a nice article. It’s not surprising to me that the Air case looks better, unibody construction has a lot of advantages. But it’s expensive to make and repair and would probably make some of the flexibility Framework offers impossible.

I was also pleasantly surprised to read the screen was ~200ppi. I know people’s reasons but having been in the >200 club for many years it annoys me to no end so many Windows laptops still ship with 1080p displays on 13 or 15” models.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#42

Post by Lawrence001 »

zamadatix wrote: post #31
OJFord wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had that be a problem though? In my experience USB (any type) pulls out anyway. I do find MagSafe appealing, but not enough, not if it's not what everyone's using. If it were a feature of USB-C it'd be great; as a separate thing, no, I'd rather have a non-magnetic USB-C. (Haven't used the MagSafe port or cable on mine yet, and don't expect to.)

Pulling away has generally been fine but I've had USB C cables break due to shearing (laptop at the edge of the table and someone swings their hand while walking past). It doesn't seem break the port thankfully but I do carry a MagSafe cable with me if I remember. The nice thing is if I forget I can still just use USB C again. To be honest the most appealing thing isn't even the accident prevention, it's one of those…

[dead]

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#43

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

OJFord wrote: post #28
cortesoft wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, MagSafe is way better for charging than USB-C, since you can’t damage it if the cable is pulled.

Have you ever had that be a problem though? In my experience USB (any type) pulls out anyway. I do find MagSafe appealing, but not enough, not if it's not what everyone's using. If it were a feature of USB-C it'd be great; as a separate thing, no, I'd rather have a non-magnetic USB-C. (Haven't used the MagSafe port or cable on mine yet, and don't expect to.)

Yes. MagSafe should never have been removed. I can literally just ignore where the power cable is.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#44

Post by BurningFrog »

OJFord wrote: post #28
cortesoft wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, MagSafe is way better for charging than USB-C, since you can’t damage it if the cable is pulled.

Have you ever had that be a problem though? In my experience USB (any type) pulls out anyway. I do find MagSafe appealing, but not enough, not if it's not what everyone's using. If it were a feature of USB-C it'd be great; as a separate thing, no, I'd rather have a non-magnetic USB-C. (Haven't used the MagSafe port or cable on mine yet, and don't expect to.)

I probably haven't, but that's far from the point for me.

The big thing is I don't have to have the discipline to always be careful where the charging cable is and adjust my movements to keep it untouched.

Cables are cheap. One less thing to worry about is priceless.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#45

Post by chrismartin »

About the resolution scaling warning in the article:

If you're running GNOME, install GNOME Tweaks (likely in your distro's package manager). The "Fonts" section has a "Scaling Factor" option gives you more granular control than a "large text" toggle. Try 1.37 or 1.50. Nearly all my apps respect it (except for OpenSnitch). Everything looks tack-sharp with none of the fractional resolution scaling drama.

(I write more about this here: https://cmart.blog/framework-surprise )

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#47

Post by lolinder »

simpaticoder wrote: post #9

My first-gen Framework 13 with Ubuntu is usable, but has major issues around power. Battery life is very poor compared to ordinary laptops (I get ~3 hours of web browsing and light coding), and compared to M-series Macbooks (which have extraordinary battery life >8 hours) it is abysmal. Suspend/resume often fails in strange ways, and occasionally even power on is problematic (e.g. battery is full but it won't turn on…

I have the AMD Framework 13 running Debian/KDE and get substantially better battery life than what you're describing but it definitely still doesn't compare to an M-series Macbook.

That said, it's worth noting that battery life struggles are common across all Linux laptops, not specific to Framework. I've run Ubuntu on laptops from several brands and they all have weird suspend/resume issues, high battery usage, and so on. (I just installed `tlp` for the first time at the recommendation of another reply to you [0], so we'll see if that makes a difference.)

I'd be curious to hear from someone who runs a Framework with Windows (if such a person exists) to see what the power story is like there.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40745832

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#48

Post by commandersaki »

Going to copy/paste from a comment I posted a year or so ago.

I have a 12th gen Framework 13", 13" M1 Air, and a 15" M2 Air. I use the Framework laptop for work because I need to use Linux.

The Framework laptop is mediocre just like pretty much all PC laptops. The hinges are awful, if you pick up the laptop upright, about 50% of the time the screen falls flat 180 degrees.

The trackpad is arse in Linux. If you're lucky you can probably get 5 hours battery life, but on a realistic workload you're looking at 2-3 hours.

The keyboard is pretty nice, but I wish ctrl/fn is swapped like Apple and it has the inverted mini-T keyboard arrows (or at least I wish someone would make a swappable keyboard for the Framework). The speakers are bloody awful. Display/Webcam/Mic are fine. I would like more ports over modular ports, but I appreciate the design that went into the modular ports. Speaking of modular ports, sometimes they abruptly stop working and require removing and reseating.

All these small nits really add up and it just feels like a mediocre experience. It is my work laptop, but I try my best to avoid using it over my PC with WSL2 or either Air laptop, but I try my best not to mix work and personal. Both the 13" M1 Air and 15" M2 Air are just amazing compared to the Framework, and I suspect PC laptops in general. They have their drawbacks, price (gouging in some ways), less ports, can't drive dual displays, but their trackpad, finish, speakers, etc. are just amazing. I personally prefer MacOS to Linux for a desktop experience as well.

For one C++ project I work on I need 32GB of memory to compile as sometimes the oom-killer will kill the compiler. That's one of the only reasons I use my WSL2 desktop or Framework laptop since memory is cheap.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#49

Post by MBCook »

linguae wrote: post #17
simpaticoder wrote: post #9

My first-gen Framework 13 with Ubuntu is usable, but has major issues around power. Battery life is very poor compared to ordinary laptops (I get ~3 hours of web browsing and light coding), and compared to M-series Macbooks (which have extraordinary battery life >8 hours) it is abysmal. Suspend/resume often fails in strange ways, and occasionally even power on is problematic (e.g. battery is full but it won't turn on…

I also have a Framework 13, and I agree that Apple’s ARM laptops have amazing performance per watt. The reason I have a Framework 13 instead of an ARM Mac is user-serviceability and cost savings. There is 32GB of RAM in my Framework, and at any time I could choose to upgrade to 64GB whenever necessary. However, because RAM in ARM Macs is integrated into the system and is not a separate user-replaceable component, I m…

I’m firmly in team Mac. And I really don’t care about upgradability that much. I’m OK with buying up front.

But Apple’s BTO prices are, as everyone knows, totally insane. Combined with pathetic base amounts it really burns people. I know a lot of Mac fans who keep putting off upgrades because it costs so much to get a decent config.

Re: Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review

#50

Post by kn0where »

The Framework touchpad is unfortunately a lot worse than the haptic touchpads on MacBooks. The click is just a little too mushy, and requires too much force as you click higher up the trackpad. I think there are finally some PC laptops with haptic touchpads, so if Framework starts offering one I’d definitely upgrade my FW13.
Post reply on HN