Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline • Hacker News Board

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#101

Post by exe34 » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:03 PM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #100

exe34 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, I'm saying I believe in the free market. buy a product that meets your requirements. if you find it doesn't, return it for a refund. do a chargeback if they won't do a refund. you are entitled to a refund within 14 days. https://www.termsfeed.com/blog/return-refund-laws-eu/#:~:tex...

The EU is a different beast entirely. People in the EU get a lot of rights that people in the US don't. That said, one of the many many problems of the "free market" is that it depends on there being a company willing to leave huge stacks of money and power on the table. Maybe some company could take a few customers from their competitors by offering great refunds and fair terms when no one else will, but why would t…

all that freedom and you can't return a faulty product?

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#102

Post by bsder » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:03 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #23

Small claims court does get a company's attention. They either have to show up or lose. Not that showing up means a win. I'm surprised that someone had trouble serving a subpoena on Facebook. Looking up "Meta" in California Corporation Search brings up everything with "Metal" in it, which is a hassle. Their actual company name is "Meta Platforms, Incorporated". Search for "Meta Platforms" here.[1] California company…

Why isn't Meta getting hit with punitive damages for this crap?

If Meta needed to cough up a million dollars to the state of California every time they lost one of these, they'd set up a proper customer service line tout suite.

I know that small claims is limited in what it can award to the plaintiff. However, I don't think that applies to punitive damages against the defendant.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#103

Post by kube-system » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:04 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #89

kube-system wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said they weren't profitable. I said they haven't fixed the problem with automation. They halfway fixed the problem, and ignored the hard part.

Why do you think they care about fixing the problem? Maybe they don't even consider it problem.

I don't think that. They clearly don't care. I think they should be forced to fix the problem.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#104

Post by netsharc » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:06 PM UTC

c-linkage wrote: post #93

Animats wrote: post #23

Small claims court does get a company's attention. They either have to show up or lose. Not that showing up means a win. I'm surprised that someone had trouble serving a subpoena on Facebook. Looking up "Meta" in California Corporation Search brings up everything with "Metal" in it, which is a hassle. Their actual company name is "Meta Platforms, Incorporated". Search for "Meta Platforms" here.[1] California company…

To me this appears as a way to outsource customer service to an external entity funded by a cash flow to which Meta does not need to contribute. The courts are always going to exist, Meta is always paying its lawyers, so why bother hiring extra people to staff a support line? And by making support have to go through the legal system you've already cut out 90% of the support calls you would normally take. Financially,…

> overwhelming the publicly funded small claims court

I'm guessing there's no court fees that the losing party has to pay? It would seem fair to tell the troublemaker to pay for the judge's and other court employees hours...

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#105

Post by popcalc » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:09 PM UTC

hackerlight wrote: post #84

nradov wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How has this been proven wrong? Meta is enormously profitable despite this tiny number of small claims lawsuits. If anything they have proven that customer service is a waste of money.

They relied on the taxpayer to fund their de facto customer service. It's like aged care homes overusing a public ambulance service instead of hiring an on-call doctor or nurse. Or shops not hiring security and overusing police resources. Public services are there to be used, but there's a line that gets regularly crossed by profit-seeking entities who do not optimize for public good and see public resources as somet…

Cola bottlers using public tap water is another good example. Rail infrastructure in America is another one.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#106

Post by dfadsadsf » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:10 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #102

Animats wrote: post #23

Small claims court does get a company's attention. They either have to show up or lose. Not that showing up means a win. I'm surprised that someone had trouble serving a subpoena on Facebook. Looking up "Meta" in California Corporation Search brings up everything with "Metal" in it, which is a hassle. Their actual company name is "Meta Platforms, Incorporated". Search for "Meta Platforms" here.[1] California company…

Why isn't Meta getting hit with punitive damages for this crap? If Meta needed to cough up a million dollars to the state of California every time they lost one of these, they'd set up a proper customer service line tout suite. I know that small claims is limited in what it can award to the plaintiff. However, I don't think that applies to punitive damages against the defendant.

My personal take is that state has to mandate that systemic companies (>100M users or X $B in revenues) have to have high quality customer service at cost. It probably cost Meta $500-$2000 to adjucate hacked account case so it's unreasonable to ask company to do it for free (hackers/bots can also file those requests). I should be able to pay Meta $2000 to recover account if my business depends on it - even if it means I have to go somewhere in person to show my ID.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#107

Post by blowski » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

sharkweek wrote: post #53

kube-system wrote: post #7

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

Agreed - I've almost never called [Insert Service Provider Here] and had one of their automated responses be helpful in any meaningful way. I'm calling because I have what seems like an exception to deal with. I learned pretty quickly as a young man that the fastest way to get my problems solved was to hit 0 on my phone as many times as it took to get that sweet, sweet "Okay, I'll transfer you to a live representativ…

I normally don’t press anything to get that result.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#108

Post by tarikjn » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

Since this is the topic, I'm going to post my own recent experience with Google/Youtube: (also with the hope that a good soul can assist/give pointers)

I have a YT channel with a short-feature documentary film I uploaded 13 years ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nz4N2K64o8). Last year YT started sending emails that channels with inactive accounts will start being deleted. So I have been working on logging on my channel account which is a Google ID tied to an email on my own domain (startingupinamerica.com) on which I still get emails. I still have the correct password to this Google ID, and 2FA was never enabled.

Google will not let me log in, as they insist on sending a verification code to a phone number I no longer own since years ago. Support requests keep sending me to a guide/process that will repeat the same thing again and again and that if I don't have any option that's that. All I get are the emails that "someone is trying to access your account" when I try to login.

I have been wondering what is the resolution in this case, it seems it's either know-someone or going to court (and risk getting banned?).

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#109

Post by intrasight » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

IronWolve wrote: post #36

What other remedy do you have when google/facebook/etc corp removes your business account? Facebook/Google are basically monopolies, and they sell their services for businesses. This isn't removing you for breaking TOS, this is just mistakes that cant get a remedy because there is no customer support. If Social media companies want to sell business services, you paid for a service, a TOS doesnt remove legal obligatio…

I know I'm dealing with a small company if their only web presence is Meta. A larger company with normal risk mitigation policies would not take that chance. So it's sort of self-selecting that only a company that's okay with having small claims court be there remedy would use Meta.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#110

Post by theGnuMe » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 9:13 PM UTC

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #63

theGnuMe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happens on Google.. The worst are the companies/people imitating US government services like post office mail holds and passports. Search google for "us passport" and check out the sponsored links "owners" of the ad.. they look like phishing scams! We need laws outlawing the misrepresentation of legitimate government services. Until then ad-block is the only solution if Google won't act appropriately. I ca…

Have you reported these and the fact that this is a reoccurring issue to the FTC? Most of these agencies need consumers to initiate action. Every time you see these scam 'ads' or sponsored listings, report them. Every time you get something unsafe from Amazon (for example I submitted the semi-recent Youtuber investigating fuses that are unsafe) report it to the FTC. The agencies that stop this initiate action from re…

How about google just delist the fraud sites or ban their advertising? Google is making money on this...