Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline • Hacker News Board

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#91

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:42 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #35

kube-system wrote: post #7

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

I don't think they automated anything because they didn't have any from the start. Unfortunately they ran out of money to hire humans because their developers already cost too much

Meta probably could not survive without a cushion of at least $20B to $40B (20% to 30%) per year? Definitely need to reduce those developer salaries to pay for real person service.

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/META/meta-platform...

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#92

Post by ModernMech » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:47 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #7

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

This is why I don't use Google services anymore, they've all but removed their customer support. You can't get them on the phone for anything. If your problem is that you're locked out of your paid YouTube prime account, their advice is to contact customer service by logging into your account (I can't, that's the problem). If you want to cancel the subscription, the best advice the internet has is to close your bank/credit card account. I've had a monthly YT premium charge that's been blocked for a year because I made the mistake of attaching it to my bank and can't log in to cancel it.

This is the level of service offered by one of the richest companies in the history of the world.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#93

Post by c-linkage » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:48 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #23

Small claims court does get a company's attention. They either have to show up or lose. Not that showing up means a win. I'm surprised that someone had trouble serving a subpoena on Facebook. Looking up "Meta" in California Corporation Search brings up everything with "Metal" in it, which is a hassle. Their actual company name is "Meta Platforms, Incorporated". Search for "Meta Platforms" here.[1] California company…

To me this appears as a way to outsource customer service to an external entity funded by a cash flow to which Meta does not need to contribute. The courts are always going to exist, Meta is always paying its lawyers, so why bother hiring extra people to staff a support line?

And by making support have to go through the legal system you've already cut out 90% of the support calls you would normally take.

Financially, the entire arrangement is a huge win and cost saving for Meta while at the same time completely overwhelming the publicly funded small claims court. This is not dissimilar to how many Walmart employees require government Aid because Walmart won't pay them enough do not require it.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#94

Post by carlosjobim » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:50 PM UTC

atum47 wrote: post #28

Instagram is full of scam ads. If you report them, they answer you telling that they aren't violating the terms so there's nothing they can do about it. Scammers be selling fake starlink equipment and plans left and right. They are clever about it, they clone the website and offer a realistic good deal (not too good that would make you doubt it).

In delivering and receiving money for these systematic scam ads, Meta is a de facto criminal enterprise. They have made billions on these crimes and should be taken to court and fined billions for their crimes. But prosecutors are sleeping.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#95

Post by JohnMakin » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:51 PM UTC

There are dozens if not far more groups on facebook pretending to be meta support to phish accounts. Facebook knows about these groups and could shut them down trivially, but that does not boost engagement numbers. A lot of meta policies are actually very hostile towards users and make absolutely no sense.

For instance, I learned I was somehow shadowbanned or deranked on instagram and confirmed on several accounts with tests. I complained to a friend I knew that work there and all of a sudden my account was getting activity again. Ever since then though the algorithm has been flagging and moderating insanely weird posts for "spam" or "self promotion", which I figured out is just the algorithm flagging you for a post going viral. when I comment about anything vaguely related to the tech field, which are always on topic and full of information I will get flagged. It's irritating to watch your account get "penalized" in some completely opaque and unfair way when you can see actual rampant spam all over their platforms. And there is practically zero recourse unless you know someone internally, like I mentioned.

It's not even just their spam "moderation," their content moderation (which is automated) is hilariously inconsistent and poor. It is utterly weird the way they hide/derank posts and comments on instagram and which content they decide to promote. You could like, let your users decide what they want to see and read, but that is clearly not the goal.

Lots of problems this company has the resources and knowledge to solve, they simply do not want to. There is no other explanation. Customer service being what it is is just a symptom of a much larger, systemic problem.

I do believe social media is a blight on society and I don't really care so much one way or another about my account, but if Meta is trying to be what it says it is trying to be, they are completely off the mark and this is just one of a long series of examples.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#96

Post by Salgat » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:53 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #92

kube-system wrote: post #7

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

This is why I don't use Google services anymore, they've all but removed their customer support. You can't get them on the phone for anything. If your problem is that you're locked out of your paid YouTube prime account, their advice is to contact customer service by logging into your account (I can't, that's the problem). If you want to cancel the subscription, the best advice the internet has is to close your bank/…

Same. AWS support will literally log into your ubuntu server (not even an official AWS AMI) and debug your problem for you if you ask for it, that's how dedicated their support is. No idea how google cloud platform support operates, but I have my doubts they're as reliable.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#97

Post by mihaaly » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:55 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #7

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

Unluckily I had to deal with trained robots well before any automation arrived to customer service. Those poor underpaid script reading fellow had to brush off those nasty complaining jerks wanting proper service for their money shielded the organization's money collection parts with lots of frustration but efficiency too. I have a feeling that the cost saving on LLM is not that big here.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#98

Post by mihaaly » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:57 PM UTC

exe34 wrote: post #59

AlexandrB wrote: post #31

Consumer rights have taken such a beating in the internet age. If you look at pre-internet product categories there are all kind of protections on the books like minimum warranty lengths, lemon laws, etc. Meanwhile, with software products - even very expensive ones - you're at the mercy of the vendor and their ToS. The fact that you can't even get refunds (e.g. within 15 days or something) for most software is ridicu…

don't buy them!

How exactly to do that after one already bought it?

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#99

Post by photonthug » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:57 PM UTC

titanomachy wrote: post #78

photonthug wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to actually say what is probably obvious.. this means that corporations have found a way to outsource the costs of providing customer support to the tax paying general public, including those who are not even using their services and never heard of the company. Ag’s should not be requesting that this is fixed, but requiring it in no uncertain terms, and giving out massive penalties for every single time it’s all…

I don't think it's really true that they've outsourced the costs. Meta sending one of their lawyers to defend the company in small claims court a single time would be hundreds of thousands of times the cost of resolving the case using a customer service rep. Of course, this approach also generates costs for the taxpayer, which sucks for everyone.

But their lawyers are probably staff or have retainers anyway, so I doubt it costs them anything extra. Meanwhile if the legal system has to staff up and/or ignore other work then that cost is real

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#100

Post by autoexec » Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 8:58 PM UTC

exe34 wrote: post #85

mathgradthrow wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the idea is that you need to buy something to figure out if it works most of the time. What you are saying us that your preferred society is one in which you are not allowed to determine if something works before you buy it.

no, I'm saying I believe in the free market. buy a product that meets your requirements. if you find it doesn't, return it for a refund. do a chargeback if they won't do a refund. you are entitled to a refund within 14 days. https://www.termsfeed.com/blog/return-refund-laws-eu/#:~:tex...

The EU is a different beast entirely. People in the EU get a lot of rights that people in the US don't.

That said, one of the many many problems of the "free market" is that it depends on there being a company willing to leave huge stacks of money and power on the table.

Maybe some company could take a few customers from their competitors by offering great refunds and fair terms when no one else will, but why would they ever do that when they'll make far more money if they screw over their customers just like everyone else is doing? Sometimes, it will always be more profitable for companies to refuse to give consumers what they want, at which point it becomes impossible to vote with your wallet since there is no one to give your money to except those who are doing what you'd prefer to "vote" against.

Especially when companies are either colluding directly with each other or just looking for the company with the most oppressive and abusive polices/practices and copying what they do, your options drop off very very quickly. Even if you do manage to find a company that seems like it's good, it's just a matter of time until enshittification kicks in and the service degrades because ultimately, companies are all looking out for themselves and insist on endless growth and higher and higher profits so they all push to charge you as much as they possibly can while delivering as little as possible in return. It's a race to the bottom where you always lose.