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Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

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Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#71
post #56
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I lived in a country where the "pirate" levy was in place I would feel justified in copyright infringement because I would feel I have already paid for it.

What country you do live in? I'm just curious where this doesn't exist. In Slovakia (and also Czech Rep.) you have to pay for empty hard drives, DVDs, ... But pirating movies/music isn't illegal so I guess it evens out?

>But pirating movies/music isn't illegal so I guess it evens out?

I don't live in Slovakia or the Czech Republic but I'm just going to go ahead and say you're wrong.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#72
post #59
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like the idea of the EU, a single market no more protectionism and other simular idotic shit. In reallity the EU is just another layer of stupid regulations and now we get protectionism and interventionsim on EU level too. Im happy that Im not in the EU (Switzerland) but I belive only getting the good stuff from the EU (open borders ...) will get harder and harder with the EU becomming more like a country.

I don't think there's much "stupid regulation", mostly just actual regulation (which can be a good thing). (There's more to say here, but it gets into politics, which is not good to have on HN)

Going into a huge disscusion on interventionsim is not my intend but let me just make a stament.

Thinking that the waterhead burocarcy in brussel is serving the people at large with there interventions is idialistic at best. The EU is very undemocratic and has been put in place over peoples heads.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's some facts that you still need to take into account: * The fee used to be a flat 0.10 Euros, negotiated in 2008. Since then, the storage sizes have gone up dramatically, so an increase in price is certainly warranted. * This is the move of the ZPÜ after negotiations failed. Their negotiating partner, the bitcom made an offer that basically called for keeping the old price. So the ZPÜ did what every nego…

it was not about wether it is 0.10 euro or 1,49. it was more about the reasons why the GEMA and co. are able to pull off what they are able to pull off. This fee is just one symbtom among a lot of others.

It's simple to answer why they are able to pull this off: There's a law for that, a law that dates back to the introduction of tape drives. Back then, there were two options:

1. Allow copying for private purposes, introduce a flat fee on empty media (tapes back then, later cassettes, cd-roms, ...)

2. Ban all private copying, prosecute it at all costs. Ban tape drives, control all technology that can be used for private copying.

3. Copy as copy can, no one gets paid. Ignore that this may be an issue for people that depend on producing (music, films, ...)

The (IMHO wise) decision was to stick with option (1), so that's where we're at. The GEMA and ZPÜ, as much hate is directed at them and as much as is wrong with them, are tasked with collection that fee. It's their job and they do it, even if it's unpopular. It's a bit like the Finanzamt (IRS). You don't have to like them, but at least keep in mind that they're doing what they have to.

Now, one may argue that the current system is not suitable for the digital age where empty media is used for so much more than copying audio, or even that the whole GEMA system should be abandoned - and I'm actually on your side in that respect - but well, that's a different topic.

You could also appeal to the regulatory body and argue that the price is too high, and that's what the bitcom rightfully does, but then you'd have to settle on an acceptable price. So what's acceptable? I don't have an answer, do you? They'll eventually figure this out and the high prices demanded are part of their negotiation strategy.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#74
post #65
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like the idea of the EU, a single market no more protectionism and other simular idotic shit. In reallity the EU is just another layer of stupid regulations and now we get protectionism and interventionsim on EU level too. Im happy that Im not in the EU (Switzerland) but I belive only getting the good stuff from the EU (open borders ...) will get harder and harder with the EU becomming more like a country.

And the great thing is that your country, being entirely surrounded by EU countries, has no choice but to implement all those "stupid regulations" as well as it won't be able to do business with its neighbours otherwise.

Not sure why this is a great thing.

Yes it has to do that to some regard but it can not be forced to and we still hold democratic control over the most importend of these things. Joining the EU would be spitting on the democratic system that Switzerland has built up over the last 200+ years.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#75

Gema is really nuts. I don't understand who lobbies for them, but instead of producing music that people like to buy, they rely more and more on taxes. Even back in the 70s they managed to put an extra tax on tape cassettes, because you could copy vinyl on them. Back then, this might have been the most likely usage for cassettes. But for CDs and USB sticks this is a rip-off. There is one more nutty thing that falls i…

You're confusing GEMA and GEZ. The GEMA is not related to public TV and is (practically) only concerned with music.

The GEZ-issue is a completely separate topic. It's about whether we want an independent, not private or state-controlled broadcasting organization. The GEZ-Gebühr is like a special tax to pay for that. There's quite a bit wrong there as well, but alas, that's a different discussion.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#76
post #39
post #28

We have similar 3% in the US on blank media cds ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy#United_Sta... ). The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, the same legislation that put these levies into place, also protected the rights of individuals to make non-commercial copies of copyrighted works. At least that's my read on it, though I am not a lawyer. All of the comments here seem vehemently opposed to the levy…

If I lived in a country where the "pirate" levy was in place I would feel justified in copyright infringement because I would feel I have already paid for it.

I doubt that this is a "pirate levy" at all. The fee on storage media is usually supposed to cover media shared with family and close friends, which is legal in many countries and does not count as piracy.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was not about wether it is 0.10 euro or 1,49. it was more about the reasons why the GEMA and co. are able to pull off what they are able to pull off. This fee is just one symbtom among a lot of others.

It's simple to answer why they are able to pull this off: There's a law for that, a law that dates back to the introduction of tape drives. Back then, there were two options: 1. Allow copying for private purposes, introduce a flat fee on empty media (tapes back then, later cassettes, cd-roms, ...) 2. Ban all private copying, prosecute it at all costs. Ban tape drives, control all technology that can be used for priva…

That was back in what, the 50s and 60s? I completly agree that the system worked back then. But in the 21st century well you can't adopt to new times by charging more from everyone you can. By doing simply that, you will pervert the very idea behind the system. It seems, at least to me, that the systems somehow developed a life by itself. And since that life currently fits into a lot of agendas, nobody will do something about it.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#79

Gema is really nuts. I don't understand who lobbies for them, but instead of producing music that people like to buy, they rely more and more on taxes. Even back in the 70s they managed to put an extra tax on tape cassettes, because you could copy vinyl on them. Back then, this might have been the most likely usage for cassettes. But for CDs and USB sticks this is a rip-off. There is one more nutty thing that falls i…

You're confusing GEMA and GEZ. The GEMA is not related to public TV and is (practically) only concerned with music. The GEZ-issue is a completely separate topic. It's about whether we want an independent, not private or state-controlled broadcasting organization. The GEZ-Gebühr is like a special tax to pay for that. There's quite a bit wrong there as well, but alas, that's a different discussion.

I am not confusing the two.

The issue is the same: static payment in the form of a tax/obligatory fee, without providing a service. You pay a tax for empty CDs, because you COULD copy music onto them. You pay a fee for public broadcasting, because you COULD use it. The companies are different, but the idea and the mindset is the same. Collecting money, even if a service is not used.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#80
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RIAA is paying attention, but this would never fly in the Land of the Free: it's a "social market economy" approach. Personally, I'm thorn: if this would mean the MAFIAA boys drop their guns forever, I'd be almost happy to have it. Unfortunately, they'd never do that, they'd just keep gunning on top of collecting their racket money.

We already have a tax like this in the U.S. on blank CDs and cassettes, passed in 1992. Despite the rhetoric, the U.S. is not really against "social market" type policies in general. If I'm being cynical, my take is that socialism is only unpopular when it might help anyone poor. :)

blank CDs are one thing, SSD memory quite another.
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