Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000% • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#51

Post by nickik » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:21 AM UTC

rmc wrote: post #32

gouranga wrote: post #20

Can you just buy from another European country and import? German customs are pretty rubbish at catching such things from my understanding. AFAIK you only get screwed on retail purchases.

Can you just buy from another European country and import? Yes that's one of the fundamental reasons for setting up the European Union. A Single Market.

I really like the idea of the EU, a single market no more protectionism and other simular idotic shit. In reallity the EU is just another layer of stupid regulations and now we get protectionism and interventionsim on EU level too.

Im happy that Im not in the EU (Switzerland) but I belive only getting the good stuff from the EU (open borders ...) will get harder and harder with the EU becomming more like a country.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#52

Post by greyman » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:32 AM UTC

markokocic wrote: post #46

greyman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also from other European country, but I believe that tax is favourable for me as an ordinary citizen and I am happy to pay it! Really, I don't joke here. It is not "You Are All Pirates" tax - this tax allows me to legally make a copy of a work of art for my private use, even if I didn't pay for the original - it is enough that the work of art was already presented in the public [for example, song in a radio, mov…

But I don't want to do that. I don't want to store anything broadcasted on radio or tv to disc. Why would I have to pay in that case? Make it optional, make it opt-in. Allow people to go to GEMA or equivalent and buy one year subscription if they want to use the "right to make copies of copyrighted content", but please don't force me, or anyone else to pay for it if we don't want it.

I agree - if you don't want that, it is unfair. Making it opt-in would be more fair, but probably much more difficult to enforce.

My main point was, that I personally agree with this model, and it is generally not that disadvantageous as the article and many comments here portraits it. Moreover, even the term "tax" is questionable in my opinion, because in this case you are getting rights for private copy of copyrighted content, it's not that you are paying for nothing specific [like in normal taxes].

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#53

Post by mironathetin » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:36 AM UTC

Gema is really nuts. I don't understand who lobbies for them, but instead of producing music that people like to buy, they rely more and more on taxes. Even back in the 70s they managed to put an extra tax on tape cassettes, because you could copy vinyl on them. Back then, this might have been the most likely usage for cassettes. But for CDs and USB sticks this is a rip-off.

There is one more nutty thing that falls into the same category. From January 2012 on, every german household has to pay for public TV, even if the household does not have a TV set. The reason is, that you can receive TV programs via internet and thus also a computer is a TV (well - ...).

So also the TV stations, by simply broadcasting their stuff for free in the internet, managed to get an extra tax. Although, there is no medium like the internet where it is easier to make users log in and let them pay exactly for what they use.

(Note: I indeed never owned a tv set. I indeed watch the daily news on my computer and I'd be happy to pay for this. But only for the news, not for the remaining crap).

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#54

Post by linuxhansl » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:42 AM UTC

Great, since I then pre-paid my fine, I can use my memory stick to pirate to my heart's content.

In fact, since I already paid for it, I will want to use it for pirating, otherwise I paid this money for nothing.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#55

Post by carlob » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:43 AM UTC

VMG wrote: post #26

carlob wrote: post #23

Meh, I guess I'm fine with it, they probably just updated it to reflect higher capacities of flash storage. I believe in Italy we have something of the order of 10 cents per CD, so a little more than 10 times that for something that can be rewritten and has a 100 the capacity doesn't seem like a 2000% hike (terrible choice of units if you ask me, they could have said 20 times more). I'd be willing to pay even more th…

Who is stopping you from financing cultural projects now? Why force me to do the same?

Usual libertarian argument. Then you go on by saying the same of scientific research, healthcare, education…

The reason I believe public funding is a superior option is that the process that decides what is worthy of being financed is democratic (as in one vote per person), while the libertarian argument of everyone does charity with their disposable income is plutocratic (as in one vote per dollar).

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#56

Post by rplnt » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:43 AM UTC

dalore wrote: post #39

foob wrote: post #28

We have similar 3% in the US on blank media cds ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy#United_Sta... ). The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, the same legislation that put these levies into place, also protected the rights of individuals to make non-commercial copies of copyrighted works. At least that's my read on it, though I am not a lawyer. All of the comments here seem vehemently opposed to the levy…

If I lived in a country where the "pirate" levy was in place I would feel justified in copyright infringement because I would feel I have already paid for it.

What country you do live in? I'm just curious where this doesn't exist. In Slovakia (and also Czech Rep.) you have to pay for empty hard drives, DVDs, ... But pirating movies/music isn't illegal so I guess it evens out?

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#57

Post by mironathetin » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:44 AM UTC

linuxhansl wrote: post #54

Great, since I then pre-paid my fine, I can use my memory stick to pirate to my heart's content. In fact, since I already paid for it, I will want to use it for pirating, otherwise I paid this money for nothing.

Pun noted.

In germany it is forbidden to break a copy protection, even if you have paid a fee for your storage media. Obviously it is a better deal to collect the taxes than to copy-protect music.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#58

Post by rplnt » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:48 AM UTC

linuxhansl wrote: post #54

Great, since I then pre-paid my fine, I can use my memory stick to pirate to my heart's content. In fact, since I already paid for it, I will want to use it for pirating, otherwise I paid this money for nothing.

It's not payment for pirating. The title (and article) is misleading. This is for legal music you are assumed to put there. It's basically the same payment (to the same organization) as radios, concert organizers, and so on have to pay. Royalty fee. It's still stupid though as sellers of the music have to pay as well, so it is double "taxed" (at best).

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#59

Post by rmc » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:53 AM UTC

nickik wrote: post #51

rmc wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you just buy from another European country and import? Yes that's one of the fundamental reasons for setting up the European Union. A Single Market.

I really like the idea of the EU, a single market no more protectionism and other simular idotic shit. In reallity the EU is just another layer of stupid regulations and now we get protectionism and interventionsim on EU level too. Im happy that Im not in the EU (Switzerland) but I belive only getting the good stuff from the EU (open borders ...) will get harder and harder with the EU becomming more like a country.

I don't think there's much "stupid regulation", mostly just actual regulation (which can be a good thing). (There's more to say here, but it gets into politics, which is not good to have on HN)

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#60

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 10:57 AM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #38

hef19898 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, being german I can confirm that. This tax increase is just another proof that the german GEMA system is really broken. The other on is GEMA demanding payment from Kindergartens for singing childrens songs and printing the texts of these things out. And even if I'm to lacy to look up a link to that story, it really actually happened. Guess what? Nobody here did anything about it. With the next guy shouting "PIRAC…

Well, there's some facts that you still need to take into account: * The fee used to be a flat 0.10 Euros, negotiated in 2008. Since then, the storage sizes have gone up dramatically, so an increase in price is certainly warranted. * This is the move of the ZPÜ after negotiations failed. Their negotiating partner, the bitcom made an offer that basically called for keeping the old price. So the ZPÜ did what every nego…

it was not about wether it is 0.10 euro or 1,49. it was more about the reasons why the GEMA and co. are able to pull off what they are able to pull off. This fee is just one symbtom among a lot of others.