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Fast Crimes at Lambda School

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Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#31

Post by busterarm »

DetroitThrow wrote: post #24
busterarm wrote: post #12

AppAcademy started with and still does ISAs and has been fairly successful. There have been situations where they've deemed certain participants greater risk and NOT offered them ISAs and asked for upfront payment, but I believe their success has largely been a result of aggressive candidate filtering all the way up to 1/3 of the way through the program after its started. I have first hand experience with their progr…

It's awesome to hear that there are more scrupulous alternatives. You say everyone is working in industry - if in a %, you mean to say like 100% of those who graduated with you work(ed) in tech afterwards, right?

Our cohort was 23. 2 people basically scammed AppAcademy by not finding a job for two years but did find jobs after that and didn't have to pay their ISA. Everyone else did find jobs within about 3 months. All but three have moved into senior roles. Of those three, one prefers just being an IC and two moved into product management.

I don't know how things are lately but given sentiment I hear about hiring from bootcamps, I imagine they haven't been able to hold up the high numbers that they had in their first few years. Would love to hear otherwise though. I still think the program is expensive for what it is, but I don't regret it at all.

My only regret was that I chose between changing careers and putting all my money in crypto at the time...back when Bitcoin was still in double digits. If I'd chosen differently I would be rich beyond my wildest dreams.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#32

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

duxup wrote: post #21

Is this just easier to SEE in a bootcamp type scenario? How many people got the traditional education route, rack up even MORE debt, still don't end up doing the thing / end up where they want to be? Is this maybe an easy to see problem that is part of a larger education problem none the less? Full disclosure: I'm the product of a boot camp. Changed careers and learned to code after age 40. It worked out great for me…

The article claims that their true placement rate was below 30%. Even for a graduate program in an oversaturated field - and I’m very comfortable describing such programs as scams themselves - that would be kinda low.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#33

Post by virissimo »

dustincoates wrote: post #14

I'm convinced that Lambda School was shady, and I'm not debating that, but some of this seems over the top. ISAs as indentured servitude? The shadowy negotiating a company's validation "behind closed doors?" (Where else are you supposed to do it.) The criticism of Lambda School can stand on its own without wading into the extreme hyperbole.

I did a year of computer science, but ended up going to App Academy with an ISA, because I couldn't really afford another couple of years. If ISAs are indentured servitude, but are still better than going to university, then what does that say about universities?

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#34

Post by tyre »

busterarm wrote: post #31
DetroitThrow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's awesome to hear that there are more scrupulous alternatives. You say everyone is working in industry - if in a %, you mean to say like 100% of those who graduated with you work(ed) in tech afterwards, right?

Our cohort was 23. 2 people basically scammed AppAcademy by not finding a job for two years but did find jobs after that and didn't have to pay their ISA. Everyone else did find jobs within about 3 months. All but three have moved into senior roles. Of those three, one prefers just being an IC and two moved into product management. I don't know how things are lately but given sentiment I hear about hiring from bootca…

Feels like not finding a job for two years isn’t really winning, unless the terms of the ISA were insane. Lost income for two years as a software developer, experience towards higher seniority and income, building a resume and portfolio…I don’t know, that seems like a losing scam for the scammers.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#35

Post by busterarm »

tyre wrote: post #34
busterarm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our cohort was 23. 2 people basically scammed AppAcademy by not finding a job for two years but did find jobs after that and didn't have to pay their ISA. Everyone else did find jobs within about 3 months. All but three have moved into senior roles. Of those three, one prefers just being an IC and two moved into product management. I don't know how things are lately but given sentiment I hear about hiring from bootca…

Feels like not finding a job for two years isn’t really winning, unless the terms of the ISA were insane. Lost income for two years as a software developer, experience towards higher seniority and income, building a resume and portfolio…I don’t know, that seems like a losing scam for the scammers.

They did it intentionally because they didn't want to pay. They had plenty of backing from their families to do so. I agree with you but people who grift aren't usually making the most rational choices anyway.

The bootcamp's selection process is basically picking winners. I was nearly unique among my cohort for my background. It was overwhelmingly ivy grads and silver spoon kids.

They're selecting for people that can afford to move to one of the most expensive cities in the world without working for 6 months. I managed it only by saving enough to pay my rent ahead of time and living off of credit cards for the rest of my spending. I ate a lot of dollar pizza and 6/$1 dumplings that year.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#36

Post by [deleted] »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #27
gatinsama wrote: post #9

The model is broken. Too many people want to learn to code, not everyone can do it well. The only way would be to filter many candidates going in, but the negative press would be huge. So you end up with huge cohorts of people who can't code, and you have to make the money back somehow. Good teachers need to know how to code well, and those are expensive too. And, let's face it, the internet is full of great material…

As a former instructor (not at Lambda), I'm kind of inclined to believe it has more to do with the fact that it takes a certain kind of person to put up with the demands of corporate software engineering. Getting both kids and adults (especially kids) to figure out how to program is easy if you understand that most of the concepts are better taught visually through p5js or what have you. Once they leave that sandbox,…

[deleted]

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#37

Post by lispisok »

paulpauper wrote: post #10

On the surface, this is another window into the 2010's tech bubble, a period where mediocre people could raise ludicrous money amid a venture capitalist echo chamber fueled by low-interest rates. But what makes this any worse than Juicero, Clinkle, or Humane? Why does this rise to the level of Theranos? It has been a bubble now for 13 years. I disagree here. Maybe it's just the new normal? Comparisons between now the…

Just because the dotcom bubble was more ludicrous doesnt mean there wasnt another bubble

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#38

Post by goat_whisperer »

duxup wrote: post #21

Is this just easier to SEE in a bootcamp type scenario? How many people got the traditional education route, rack up even MORE debt, still don't end up doing the thing / end up where they want to be? Is this maybe an easy to see problem that is part of a larger education problem none the less? Full disclosure: I'm the product of a boot camp. Changed careers and learned to code after age 40. It worked out great for me…

You can argue about the value of traditional education.

But I think you would be hard pressed to find a university, even a crappy one, where it's up to the students to TA themselves, there are 100 students to one professor, and the curriculum constantly changes in the middle of a semester. So it's not quite accurate to try and compare Lambda to a traditional univeristy.

But congrats on your success in career changing. It begs the question of whether you could've done that on your own without attending a boot camp.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#39

Post by KRAKRISMOTT »

CalChris wrote: post #16
gatinsama wrote: post #9

The model is broken. Too many people want to learn to code, not everyone can do it well. The only way would be to filter many candidates going in, but the negative press would be huge. So you end up with huge cohorts of people who can't code, and you have to make the money back somehow. Good teachers need to know how to code well, and those are expensive too. And, let's face it, the internet is full of great material…

Wizard: Why, anybody can have a brain. Therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me, I hereby confer upon you the Honorary Degree of T.H.D. Scarecrow: “Th.D.”? Wizard: Yeah, that’s “Doctor of Thinkology.” The authority vested in Allred was that he'd been a manager at a payday lending company.

Allred?

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#40

Post by mapmeld »

dustincoates wrote: post #14

I'm convinced that Lambda School was shady, and I'm not debating that, but some of this seems over the top. ISAs as indentured servitude? The shadowy negotiating a company's validation "behind closed doors?" (Where else are you supposed to do it.) The criticism of Lambda School can stand on its own without wading into the extreme hyperbole.

Agreed, I gave real $ to the "Lambda Perpetual Access Fund" and now feel negative about the whole thing, but the sections where the author is talking about Austen's golf swing, bots, having written a paragraph conscious of clickbait? Not really necessary.
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