Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000% • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#31

Post by LinXitoW » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:18 AM UTC

linhat wrote: post #29

While this is already 2 weeks old[1], being german this still drives me nuts. It's not only their refusal to explain why exactly they feel the need to increase these charges, it's their complete ignorance as to the actual use of these storage mediums. I really hope that Bitkom finds a way to fight back. But the real Problem here is (as almost always when it comes to digital rights) the GEMA. They are the reason why Y…

To clarify your first point: They've justified this by saying that compression algorithms have gotten better meaning people can store more on less, which is idiotic, seeing how files get a lot bigger because of higher quality. Their explanations are based on a study that isn't even available to the public. The tax is also levied on SD cards, which afaik no one ever uses for anything else than as a storage for media you produce yourself, since they are used mostly in cameras and smartphones.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#32

Post by rmc » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:20 AM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #20

Can you just buy from another European country and import? German customs are pretty rubbish at catching such things from my understanding. AFAIK you only get screwed on retail purchases.

Can you just buy from another European country and import?

Yes that's one of the fundamental reasons for setting up the European Union. A Single Market.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#33

Post by jsilence » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:26 AM UTC

keithpeter wrote: post #14

jsilence wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal comment: Most of the people in Germany don't seem to be aware of the situation, simply not knowing that there is such a levy. Most of them also don't even know that they are allowed to make private copies (aka Privatkopie), and fall for the 'U r all pirates' propaganda of the content industry. Friends are often astonished when they joke about pirating while we swap music and when I subsequently tell them, th…

Good luck with all that, in the UK, 'format shifting' (i.e. ripping a CD to mp3 to put it on your phone) is still a criminal offence, copyright act has not been changed despite undertakings from both recent governments. I'm quite interested in what happens in Germany with second hand computers. Many computers end up in recycling or landfill when they could be used for some further time. Do the small computer shops/pe…

AFAIK the levy on computers is only for the first retail, not on subsequent second hand sales. It is a fixed rate for a category of products.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#34

Post by lawn » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:27 AM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #20

Can you just buy from another European country and import? German customs are pretty rubbish at catching such things from my understanding. AFAIK you only get screwed on retail purchases.

I'm from Sweden and we have a similar tax. I used to import from Germany but now I need to find a new source.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#35

Post by dakimov » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:30 AM UTC

It's very remarkable to see how that totally absurd law violating all principles of justice is accepted by governments both in developed countries such as the USA and Germany, and not so developed such as Russia. Does it mean that governments around the world are equally ignorant and unprincipled, regardless of a country's wealth, culture or democratic freedom?

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#36

Post by frobozz » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:30 AM UTC

veeti wrote: post #25

Welcome to the club, Germany. We've had this shit in Finland for ages.

Germany has had it since 1965. The news is the massive increase, not the existence of the tax.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#37

Post by lamby » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:32 AM UTC

A reliable "tell" that a source is attempting to manipulate you is when they quote any percentage greater than 80%.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#38

Post by Xylakant » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:35 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #10

darklajid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, if you're not entirely sure about the article, relax a bit. The source of this weird site is a well-known and respected IT site, heise.de. I'd ~translate~ ZPÜ as 'Central authority (Z) for private (P) rights to create copies (Ü)'. They are, for all I can tell, part of the 'GEMA' group, the German "We're responsible to collect money for artists whenever you run a radio/play music in a public place" guys. These…

Yep, being german I can confirm that. This tax increase is just another proof that the german GEMA system is really broken. The other on is GEMA demanding payment from Kindergartens for singing childrens songs and printing the texts of these things out. And even if I'm to lacy to look up a link to that story, it really actually happened. Guess what? Nobody here did anything about it. With the next guy shouting "PIRAC…

Well, there's some facts that you still need to take into account:

* The fee used to be a flat 0.10 Euros, negotiated in 2008. Since then, the storage sizes have gone up dramatically, so an increase in price is certainly warranted. * This is the move of the ZPÜ after negotiations failed. Their negotiating partner, the bitcom made an offer that basically called for keeping the old price. So the ZPÜ did what every negotiator will do: The put up a demand where they have room to lower the price.

So all in all, I'm annoyed that the price has gone up, but I'm not as outraged as many are. I don't buy tens or hundreds of USB-Sticks anyways, so the net result for me is negligible. It's the price we chose to pay when private copying was legalized and me for one, I'm happy to pay that price.

In the end, this is the wrong battle to fight, the copyright-issue will be decided on other fronts. We need a complete overhaul of the current system, so don't waste your breath here.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#39

Post by dalore » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:40 AM UTC

foob wrote: post #28

We have similar 3% in the US on blank media cds ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy#United_Sta... ). The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, the same legislation that put these levies into place, also protected the rights of individuals to make non-commercial copies of copyrighted works. At least that's my read on it, though I am not a lawyer. All of the comments here seem vehemently opposed to the levy…

If I lived in a country where the "pirate" levy was in place I would feel justified in copyright infringement because I would feel I have already paid for it.

Re: Germany Increases 'You Are All Pirates' Tax On Solid State Media By 2000%

#40

Post by Mordor » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 9:41 AM UTC

foob wrote: post #28

We have similar 3% in the US on blank media cds ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy#United_Sta... ). The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, the same legislation that put these levies into place, also protected the rights of individuals to make non-commercial copies of copyrighted works. At least that's my read on it, though I am not a lawyer. All of the comments here seem vehemently opposed to the levy…

It's the laws which create criminals and the law needs to change. Society owns the laws and we have all changed, so the law needs to change with us. Any business which is unable to compete with its customers is out of business - why postpone the inevitable?