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Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

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Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#61

Post by mdhb »

KingMob wrote: post #55
JimDabell wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Customers want apps. Companies want apps. No one except us nerds want PWAs. I used to work on a platform that offered native iOS apps, native Android apps, and PWA / web apps for all our customers. When users were given the choice, around two thirds opted for the native iOS app, about a quarter opted for the native Android app, and about 10% opted for the PWA / web app. That’s including desktop users, not just mobi…

More likely, users want something that works, is a good experience, and don't care about apps _per se_ at all. If Apple wasn't hamstringing PWAs, they might be viable for more categories of software.

[flagged]

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#62

Post by iudqnolq »

throwaway9143 wrote: post #35
joshstrange wrote: post #26

Whenever this argument comes up it reminds me of how detached from reality HN is on this subject. Customers want apps. Companies want apps. No one except us nerds want PWAs. We can talk about how PWAs are second class citizens and how unfair that is or we can remember that end-users _do not care_ about the underlying technology. We constantly make this mistake, customer don’t care what language you are using, they do…

"customer don't care what language/framework you are using" is a strange way to support a claim they do care about having a native app over a PWA. The first statement highlights that the user just wants something that works as advertised, and doesn't care about the framework. But the second statement highlights that, despite their disinterest in the technology, they care deeply about the app's delivery tech (PWAs vs…

The user doesn't care about the delivery tech. They care about the installation and usage experience. They want to go search the app store, click the button, and get an icon on their homescreen.

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#63

Post by d1sxeyes »

ec109685 wrote: post #14
throwaway9143 wrote: post #3

I'll give you a hard-earned tip: expect to fight Apple every step of the way. They will randomly erase all local data (cookies, localstorage, push subscription tokens, etc) in your PWA without warning. They say they don't do this, but I have the receipts. They want PWAs to suffer, and you will go insane trying to make workarounds on iPhone.

Great point. The fact that they don’t backup to the cloud PWA data makes it a non-starter for any app that wants a local only experience. It’s trash.

I am not sure that I would be happy with a 'local only' experience actually backing up data to the cloud.

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#64

Post by jb1991 »

palsecam wrote: post #51
jb1991 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting, thanks. I just did it successfully, I don’t think I’ve ever installed an app like this before. So I guess when I click it it’s just opening a browser window with no actual browser controls and then loading the site?

Exactly. “it’s just opening a browser window with no actual browser controls” : yes, due to the `display` setting in the app manifest: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Manifest/displa... It’s similar to a `WebView` component: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebView

Why do they use the words progressive web app, seems like a fancy term for just saving a link to your home screen. Is there some additional benefit you get besides this shortcut? Does it do things a webpage does not once it’s been added to your home screen?

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#65

Post by the_florist »

https://flowery.app is exclusively a PWA. It was designed from the ground up to prioritize the “Add to Home Screen” experience on iOS. The web is the ideal platform given the app’s emphasis on text and typography, and a native replica would be reinventing the wheel for no tangible benefit to the user.

WebKit and Safari have come a long way. Flowery puts browser engines through their paces with its UI animation, which is smoothest on WebKit. Safari’s OS integration (e.g., elastic scroll, Sonoma’s “Add to Dock”) is more polished than Chrome’s.

It wasn’t a walk in the park though. An early decision, after maddening attempts to circumvent browser quirks five years ago, was to build substitutes for common building blocks of the browser on mobile, notably the virtual keyboard, textboxes, and text selection. This wouldn’t have been possible without web components and Google’s excellent Lit library.

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#66

Post by scarface_74 »

JoeyJoJoJr wrote: post #59
joshstrange wrote: post #26

Whenever this argument comes up it reminds me of how detached from reality HN is on this subject. Customers want apps. Companies want apps. No one except us nerds want PWAs. We can talk about how PWAs are second class citizens and how unfair that is or we can remember that end-users _do not care_ about the underlying technology. We constantly make this mistake, customer don’t care what language you are using, they do…

Users also have their favourite messaging apps and services, completely oblivious to the fact that it’s actually completely stupid that there is basically no interoperability between these apps and services. Imagine if Yahoo mail could never send emails to Hotmail or Gmail. People in the know rightfully care about the erosion of standards for which big tech have built their empires upon.

How do you make messaging apps inoperable and guarantee end to end encryption? How do you add features to your messaging app without having to wait years for a standard body?

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#67

Post by scarface_74 »

KingMob wrote: post #57
joshstrange wrote: post #26

Whenever this argument comes up it reminds me of how detached from reality HN is on this subject. Customers want apps. Companies want apps. No one except us nerds want PWAs. We can talk about how PWAs are second class citizens and how unfair that is or we can remember that end-users _do not care_ about the underlying technology. We constantly make this mistake, customer don’t care what language you are using, they do…

You talk a lot about what customers want, but they want apps only because Apple makes PWAs so unpleasant. There are some tech limitations (games might be tougher), but most of what makes PWAs suck is Apple. In another timeline, Apple chose to double-down on PWAs instead of the App Store after the iphone 1, and PWAs are the majority of non-performance-sensitive smartphone applications.

Every single “write once run everywhere” technology has sucked compared to native apps.

Developers complained when the first iPhone came out and when Steve Jobs called web apps a “sweet solution”. Even Gruber called the solution a “shit sandwich”.

If it’s only Apple holding PWAs back, then why do most of the same companies write Android apps instead of just producing PWAs that work on PCs and Android devices?

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#68

Post by scarface_74 »

KingMob wrote: post #55
JimDabell wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Customers want apps. Companies want apps. No one except us nerds want PWAs. I used to work on a platform that offered native iOS apps, native Android apps, and PWA / web apps for all our customers. When users were given the choice, around two thirds opted for the native iOS app, about a quarter opted for the native Android app, and about 10% opted for the PWA / web app. That’s including desktop users, not just mobi…

More likely, users want something that works, is a good experience, and don't care about apps _per se_ at all. If Apple wasn't hamstringing PWAs, they might be viable for more categories of software.

And if you are creating an app, most of the time you want a web page too for PCs. If it’s only Apple, then why don’t companies just build a PWA for PC users and Android users and only write an app for iOS users?

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#69

Post by scarface_74 »

goosejuice wrote: post #8
1oooqooq wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would you not put a wrapped pwa in the app store? isn't it a small racketeering/marketing price for the promissed discoverability?

Easier with Android. Apple requires many hurdles, at least for US. You'll also then have to revenue share. Depends on your audience on whether this will actually be worth the investment. Being on the app store doesn't necessarily make you visible anyhow. It's just easier to install for apple users.

If you have a SaaS app, there is nothing stopping you from charging more in app to make up the difference and charging less outside the store

Re: Ask HN: Who has had a successful PWA product?

#70

Post by joshstrange »

iknowstuff wrote: post #58
joshstrange wrote: post #26

Whenever this argument comes up it reminds me of how detached from reality HN is on this subject. Customers want apps. Companies want apps. No one except us nerds want PWAs. We can talk about how PWAs are second class citizens and how unfair that is or we can remember that end-users _do not care_ about the underlying technology. We constantly make this mistake, customer don’t care what language you are using, they do…

Tell that to users of https://sniffies.com nsfw Can’t have that on the app store.

That’s not a good example, I’ll bet 99% of users of that website couldn’t tell you it’s a PWA or what a PWA is. All they know is that the only way to get this “app” is add it to the home screen and if it was allowed in the App Store they’d all get it from there instead.

That’s not customers choosing PWA over native, it’s customers forced to use PWA since native isn’t an option.

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