Live data from Hacker News

EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

patrick-breyer.de

211–220 of 330 posts

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#211

The folks over at Tuta interviewed Patrick Breyer about this yesterday and his explanation of Chat Control is downright sinister. Link here: https://youtu.be/wSEI-dg3Hpo Let's keep spreading the word about this, the whole Chat Control debate seems to be ignored right now in the media.

> Let's keep spreading the word about this, the whole Chat Control debate seems to be ignored right now in the media. Maybe it is not purely by chance that the EU is dealing with this topic during the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2024 ? ;)

Shit, I never thought about that

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#212
post #194
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punish is a strong word, it slightly inconveniences all "the nice users". It's really not that big of a deal honestly, you unscrew the bottle, flip the cap up (it kinda locks like that and stays out of your way in one of the designs I've seen, in the other it's just attached and can easily be kept out of the way with a finger), then you drink, I fail to see how you suddenly need two hands as opposed to before...

Not debating the merits of this case. There are many regulations that slightly inconvenience the many, to address the problems of a few. Individually these cases are benign. As a group they compound complexity. Each new reform should be evaluated on both its benefits and the burden that it brings.

Wholeheartedly agree. But we (as a society) have neglected the environment for far too fucking long now, some inconvenience for tiny gains is valid until we start seeing societal and environmental improvements.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#213
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The EU (as often) is being used here as a scapegoat for anti-democratic policies desired by national governments. But if the representatives are chosen by the, presumably, democratically elected governments how are they "anti-democratic". Unless representative democracies are inherently undemocratic (and therefore most European government themselves undemocratic), I fail to see how this can be described as "anti-dem…

If you read >The EU (as often) is being used here as a scapegoat for anti-democratic policies desired by national governments. as >The EU (as often) is being used here as a scapegoat for anti-democratic policies desired by democratically elected national governments. This is a perfectly fine statement. The policy is argued to be anti-democratic because of its substance, not because of how democratic the process is by…

The issue of chat control is also orthogonal to it's "democracy". It is neither democratic nor anti-democratic. It obviously in no way invalidates people's rights to determine their government, labeling arbitrary issues as "anti-democratic" just because you don't like them is very unhelpful.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#214
post #37

Has anyone in power thought through the scale of this? Even if it has a frankly exceptional error rate of just 0.001%, that still means tens of thousands of innocent Europeans will have their lives ruined every day. And, assuming there's a human in the loop, who are we going to traumatize to check The Machine's work? Is it going to be Kenyans again^, or Eastern Europeans this time? ^ https://theguardian.com/technolog…

In the proposal, they write that the service providers have to figure out a way to make the false positives reported to the police "minimal". This is obviously a major burden to put on the service providers, in effect completely excluding all small outfits (and I'm sceptical the large companies want to deal with this either).

Germany have had some similar tech in place according to Der Spiegel, but the entire increase in positives was found out to be legal dickpics and flirty messages between teenagers etc. The only result was that the police now have a huge database of teenager's naked pictures and kids on the beach, which can hardly be a good way to minimize pedophile activity.

It will be a shitshow beyond comprehension if this eventually gets implemented.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#216
I've (with help of ChatGPT) written an email that I've sent to all representatives. Feel free to use it!

  To: info.belgoeurop@diplobel.fed.be, mission.brusselseu@bg-permrep.eu, eu.brussels@embassy.mzv.cz, brurep@um.dk, info@bruessel-eu.diplo.de, permrep.eu@mfa.ee, irlprb@dfa.ie, mea.bruxelles@rp-grece.be, reper.bruselasue@reper.maec.es, courrier.bruxelles-dfra@diplomatie.gouv.fr, hr.perm.rep@mvep.hr, rpue.rpue@esteri.it, cy.perm.rep@mfa.gov.cy, permrep.eu@mfa.gov.lv, office@eu.mfa.lt, bruxelles.rpue@mae.etat.lu, sec.beu@mfa.gov.hu, maltarep@gov.mt, bre@minbuza.nl, bruessel-ov@bmeia.gv.at, bebrustpe@msz.gov.pl, reper@mne.pt, bru@rpro.eu, slomission.eu@gov.si, eu.brussels@mzv.sk, sanomat.eue@formin.fi, representationen.bryssel@gov.se
  
  Subject: Urgent: Chat Control
  Dear Representative,
  
  I am writing to express my deep concerns regarding Chat Control. As a citizen of the European Union, I am committed to safeguarding our fundamental rights and freedoms, particularly the right to privacy and the protection of personal data.
  
  The Chat Control Chat Control poses several significant risks:
  
  Invasion of Privacy: The proposed measures would lead to the mass surveillance of private communications, undermining the privacy of all EU citizens. This broad surveillance is disproportionate and infringes on our fundamental right to private correspondence.
  
  Security Risks: Weakening encryption to facilitate the monitoring of communications makes all users more vulnerable to cyberattacks. Encryption is essential for protecting sensitive data, including financial information, personal communications, and sensitive business data.
  
  Potential for Abuse: Granting authorities the power to monitor private communications without adequate checks and balances can lead to misuse and abuse of power. This undermines trust in both governmental and digital platforms.
  
  Stifling Innovation: Chat Control could have a chilling effect on tech innovation within the EU. Companies may be discouraged from developing new technologies or offering their services in the EU due to increased regulatory burdens and privacy concerns.
  
  I urge you to oppose Chat Control and advocate for solutions that protect children online without compromising the privacy and security of all citizens. Alternatives such as targeted interventions, improved digital literacy, and support for responsible online behavior are more effective and less intrusive ways to achieve these goals.
  
  Protecting the privacy and security of our digital communications is crucial for maintaining trust in the digital economy and upholding the values of the European Union. I hope you will consider these points and vote against Chat Control.

  Thank you for your attention to this critical matter.

  Yours sincerely,
  [your name/address/etc.]

If you are outside the EU, change the first paragraph to:

  I am writing to express my deep concern regarding the proposed Chat Control legislation, despite not being a resident of the European Union. As someone who values privacy and security in digital communications, I believe this legislation has far-reaching implications that extend beyond the borders of the EU.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#217
post #37

Has anyone in power thought through the scale of this? Even if it has a frankly exceptional error rate of just 0.001%, that still means tens of thousands of innocent Europeans will have their lives ruined every day. And, assuming there's a human in the loop, who are we going to traumatize to check The Machine's work? Is it going to be Kenyans again^, or Eastern Europeans this time? ^ https://theguardian.com/technolog…

>Has anyone in power thought through the scale of this? Why would they? People in power and judges are always exempt from warrantless mass surveillance. They get actual privacy.

France managed to get in an exemption in the proposal for their police and security workers, who can keep their privacy. I think the wording is that this would only apply to apps available to "the public". So if "the public" can't download your app, you're safe...

I think it just shows it won't be possible to implement this in a useful way. Let's hope...

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I dunno how you drink out of a bottle, but I most certainly don't deep throat it to have its neck in my mouth. Please enlighten me how it would make it impossible to "drink properly" when the bottle is flipped beyond the neck.

I have problem with 0.5l yoghurt bottles. Yoghurt is best when shaken before opening the bottle because its viscosity spreads evenly, otherwise you get watery yoghurt on top, bottom is too dense.

I enjoy having morning breakfast in the park, drinking yoghurt straight from the bottle. When I shake it, yoghurt sticks to the cap. When caps were removable, I'd put it aside so that yoghurt that stuck to the cap does not spill on my shirt, re-screw it after I finish and throw bottle and cap to the bin. Now it's hard to remove the cap and I spill yoghurt on my shirt frequently, so I go to greater lengths to tear the cap away and re-screw when I empty the bottle.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple parties described as far-right in EU countries. Hungary has Fidesz, Germany has Alternative für Deutschland, the Sweden Democrats are almost far-right (apparently), etc.

[flagged]

The AfD literally has meetings about mass deportations and many members at the top are literally neo-nazis. One member of parliament was even involved in a group that was planning a coup. When they started defending the Waffen-SS instead of discussing real problems it was even too much for Rassemblement National. You talking points about fake news are following the party line to denounce existing institutions and to appeal to conservatives.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at every stage people will talk about how horrible EU is as if this has already passed, just like last time.

Can't EU be terrible, just because those ideas get this far?

[flagged]
Post reply on HN