Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

news.asu.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 274 posts

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#231

Post by mistermann »

MeImCounting wrote: post #227
poochkoishi728 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Influence != Determine

Yes it is indeed possible that in that small and shrinking gap of behavior that isnt explained by some complex set of circumstances and stimuli there lies some magic immaterial soul that grants the ineffable quality of free will. Bbbut since we have yet to find any evidence for such a thing I wouldnt keep my hopes up. Also theres much more interesting questions to be asking.

Might "explanations" have a (perhaps private, or semi-private) epistemic value attribute? That could certainly change the game up.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#232

Post by etskinner »

johnnylambada wrote: post #27

It’s fascinating to think about the number of PUs (procedural units) it takes to make a modern tool. Something as simple as a modern hammer must number in the thousands and a mobile phone in the millions or billions.

Is "procedural units" a commonly used term? I couldn't find any info in a quick search. I'd love to hear more about the concept

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#233

Post by mrguyorama »

calepayson wrote: post #216
maxwell wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickens are bipedal. There are tree frogs with opposable thumbs. Elephants and cetaceans have strong social behavior. Other hominids have all these. What other animals make fire? Cooked food was the game changer. https://www.livescience.com/5946-chimps-master-step-controll...

Fire is rad but I don’t see how it explains modern civilization. If most animals are operating on a calorie deficit and fixing this can lead to larger brains then why haven’t domesticated animals evolved towards our level of intelligence?

I don't think fire and therefore cooked food was THE change, though I think it definitely helped, but

>If most animals are operating on a calorie deficit and fixing this can lead to larger brains then why haven’t domesticated animals evolved towards our level of intelligence?

Because farm animals do not evolve, they are bred. We have directed their evolutionary paths for centuries, away from what it would do on it's own, towards creatures that produce more milk, more meat, or fattier meat.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#234

Post by maxwell »

calepayson wrote: post #216
maxwell wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickens are bipedal. There are tree frogs with opposable thumbs. Elephants and cetaceans have strong social behavior. Other hominids have all these. What other animals make fire? Cooked food was the game changer. https://www.livescience.com/5946-chimps-master-step-controll...

Fire is rad but I don’t see how it explains modern civilization. If most animals are operating on a calorie deficit and fixing this can lead to larger brains then why haven’t domesticated animals evolved towards our level of intelligence?

Modern civilization is multi-special.

From a calories-per-unit-of-labor standpoint, dogs and cats have now clearly eclipsed humanity, using their emotional intelligence to create a post-scarcity Marxian utopia where they can mostly do whatever they want all day while humans toil for them.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#235

Post by mrguyorama »

vasco wrote: post #147
dTal wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if those assumptions were true (and why should they be? the universe is not a computer, does not have "frames") what would that have to do with "free will"?

Why should yours? It seemed like you liked musing about this topic so I added a bit. You (and I) have no idea if the universe is or not a computer. If you don't see the connection of free will to error margin of a deterministic system then I'm not sure how else to put it. Just imagine a deterministic program getting a bit flipped by a cosmic ray and turning non deterministic and apply that to the universe's system of…

>You (and I) have no idea if the universe is or not a computer.

You actually cannot just say "Man, the universe is so complicated, so it is possible it could be anything!"

That's a non-sequitur and not sound reasoning or logic.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#236

Post by fsckboy »

vasco wrote: post #113
fsckboy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the genius of photolithography (and its descendents) is that each chip is printed all at once, all the transistors at once over several steps for the several layers. This is what makes chips inexpensive.

The genius of photolithography is many things, I wouldn't say the wafer process is any more special than the statistical models that can predict where a nozzle needs to point to lay substract with more precision than the nozzle itself can provide or a number of other important inventions there.

using the same process that was used to make a single transistor (and package and attach connecting leads to it)...

...to make an entire circuit (and package and attach connecting leads to it)...

is the invention of the integrated circuit

and photolithography made that possible. It subsequently had a large number of important follow on innovations, but which were conceptually proper subsets of it.

had some other process made integrated circuits possible, that other process would have subsequently had many important innovations.

what flowed from photolithographic chip making is still flowing today.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#237

Post by MeImCounting »

mistermann wrote: post #230
MeImCounting wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres actually a ton of different ways. The most obvious is probably MRIs of which many have been conducted with the subject having a huge variety of different stimulus. Then theres the good old fashioned behavioral studies ranging from the classic "does the subject jerk their hand back in the presence of heat?" to the more recent hungry judge phenomenon. I wouldnt think the fairly self evident assertion that exteri…

Did you remember to check/contemplate whether your "measurements" are correct? This seems like a rather recursively self-referential problem.

Im not really sure what you mean here, could you elaborate?

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#238

Post by MeImCounting »

mistermann wrote: post #231
MeImCounting wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is indeed possible that in that small and shrinking gap of behavior that isnt explained by some complex set of circumstances and stimuli there lies some magic immaterial soul that grants the ineffable quality of free will. Bbbut since we have yet to find any evidence for such a thing I wouldnt keep my hopes up. Also theres much more interesting questions to be asking.

Might "explanations" have a (perhaps private, or semi-private) epistemic value attribute? That could certainly change the game up.

Well most of the explanations I personally am interested in have a public and therefore high epistemic value. Since they are published and repeatable. Certain behavioral tests or self-report surveys on the other hand have lower value because of the private nature of what were intending to test. They still have some value though.

Private experiences may be very important for individuals and like I said elsewhere, free-will is certainly a useful idea in religious contexts. I do not believe this has any bearing on practical matters such as our ability to predict or understand the actions taken by any given system such as humans or computers.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#239

Post by xeromal »

calepayson wrote: post #216
maxwell wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickens are bipedal. There are tree frogs with opposable thumbs. Elephants and cetaceans have strong social behavior. Other hominids have all these. What other animals make fire? Cooked food was the game changer. https://www.livescience.com/5946-chimps-master-step-controll...

Fire is rad but I don’t see how it explains modern civilization. If most animals are operating on a calorie deficit and fixing this can lead to larger brains then why haven’t domesticated animals evolved towards our level of intelligence?

Probably because our interference with their breeding selects for non-smart qualities.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#240

Post by xeromal »

Vespasian wrote: post #90
Earw0rm wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's culture, and it's known to exist among animals in a limited way. We don't really know what the upper bound for non humans is, because we don't know exactly what's being communicated by, for example, whale song.

I wonder whether we (as human) are merely the first species that managed to overcome initial barriers to developing culture and tech and thereby preventing any other species to do the same (for now). It feels like bipedalism, opposable thumbs and strong social behaviour and other factores were the perfect storm at the perfect time.

I think if any animal has a shot at sentience, it'll be dogs. We've been improving their diets and breeding for intelligence.
Post reply on HN