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Salt, We Misjudged You

nytimes.com

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Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#91

Post by blantonl »

arn wrote: post #25

So, I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. And I'll be upfront. I'm probably biased on the side of medicine on this one. I'm a former nephrologist. The one study this person mentions by name (and dismisses) is the DASH-Sodium Study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results "Like the previous study, it was based on a large sample (412 participants) and was a multi…

nephrologist = branch of internal medicine and pediatrics dealing with the study of the function and diseases of the kidney.[1]

[1] Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephrology

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#92

Post by mark_l_watson »

jswinghammer wrote: post #7

As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I…

I believe that we all have unique metabolisms and the real "science" is the personal study of how we feel physically correlated with what we have been eating, amount of exercise, lack of tension, etc. I ended up as a vegetarian (with a little fish) because I kept track of how I felt and compared with recently eaten food. I have friends who thrive on high meat diets. We are all different.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#93

Post by arn »

joe_the_user wrote: post #76
arn wrote: post #25

So, I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. And I'll be upfront. I'm probably biased on the side of medicine on this one. I'm a former nephrologist. The one study this person mentions by name (and dismisses) is the DASH-Sodium Study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results "Like the previous study, it was based on a large sample (412 participants) and was a multi…

Uh, He points out that the study followed people for 30 days . And made recommendations for life-long behavior. And wasn't looking at final results but markers (blood pressure). And was the main argument against salt consumption when we do have some data on people's life-long behaviors and their result. And this wasn't "medicine" that spoke but a particular institution making recommendations. Edit: removed possibly i…

Re 30 days. I get it. If you want to argue that the general mass population doesn't benefit from salt restriction, I wouldn't argue very strongly against it.

But he seems to suggest salt restriction harmful to the masses? I want more data on that than what's offered.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#94

Post by arn »

joe_the_user wrote: post #79
arn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that "salt is bad" has just as shaky underpinnings as "lower blood pressure is good". Wait, "lower blood pressure is good" has shaky underpinnings? Is there a debate on that? I don't think there's a debate that high blood pressure results in worse (death/disease) outcomes.

"Wait, "lower blood pressure is good" has shaky underpinnings? Is there a debate on that? I don't think there's a debate that high blood pressure results in worse (death/disease) outcomes." There's no debate that high blood is associated with heart disease. There's always "a debate" if you try to go from correlation to cause. You always have to be careful this. You have to show that a particular mechanism for lowerin…

I acknowledge that jumping from a to b to c (low salt to low blood pressure to less death) has gaps in causality. But why do you not take objection to his uncited assertions that low salt intake and bad outcomes together imply causality?

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#95

Post by jswinghammer »

Panoramix wrote: post #13
jswinghammer wrote: post #7

As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I…

Which book was it?

The Primal Blueprint is the best source of information on this approach. It's less of a diet and more of a lifestyle change. It was a great read.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#96

Post by jswinghammer »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #92
jswinghammer wrote: post #7

As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I…

I believe that we all have unique metabolisms and the real "science" is the personal study of how we feel physically correlated with what we have been eating, amount of exercise, lack of tension, etc. I ended up as a vegetarian (with a little fish) because I kept track of how I felt and compared with recently eaten food. I have friends who thrive on high meat diets. We are all different.

I believe it. For me wheat really messes me up but white rice is fine. I eat it now and then because I like it so much. Whatever works.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#98

Post by jcheng »

psykotic wrote: post #78
iand wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fats and proteins are more filling and satisfying per gram than carbs. The pizza example you give is basically wrong. Carbs would be the largest source of calories. For example see http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fast-foods-generic/9307/... which is for a 2500 calorie pepperoni pizza. Almost half the calories come from carbs.

> Fats and proteins are more filling and satisfying per gram than carbs. Again, that statement makes no sense. You don't eat carbs, fats and proteins. You eat foods. Is 100 calories of olive oil as filling as 100 calories of asparagus (about a pound)? If that's too extreme, I'd still gladly put up your 100 calories of olive oil (a few spoonfuls) against my 100 calories of white rice (a small bowl) for satiety and ful…

You seem to know what you're talking about. Is there a book, author, or website you'd recommend for getting a primer on nutrition? Many of my friends are doing paleo diets, juice diets, no-carb diets and all of them have pseudo scientific sounding explanations and bestselling books espousing them.

I don't personally need to lose any weight (in fact I could stand to gain a few) but I am still curious about how the food I eat is affecting my body. With everyone yelling different sets of "facts", it's hard to know where to even start.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#99

Post by gruseom »

arn wrote: post #94
joe_the_user wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wait, "lower blood pressure is good" has shaky underpinnings? Is there a debate on that? I don't think there's a debate that high blood pressure results in worse (death/disease) outcomes." There's no debate that high blood is associated with heart disease. There's always "a debate" if you try to go from correlation to cause. You always have to be careful this. You have to show that a particular mechanism for lowerin…

I acknowledge that jumping from a to b to c (low salt to low blood pressure to less death) has gaps in causality. But why do you not take objection to his uncited assertions that low salt intake and bad outcomes together imply causality?

Where in the article does Taubes assert that? All I see him asserting is that more than one hypothesis is plausible and the evidence is contradictory.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#100

Post by jswinghammer »

rubashov wrote: post #11
jswinghammer wrote: post #7

As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I…

Well Loren Cordain, godfather of "paleo", remains convinced that salt is bad. He claims the chloride does some bad stuff (I forget) and also the sodium screws up potassium and magnesium levels somehow.

I avoid processed foods as a rule so it's hard for me to get a lot of salt anyway. I really don't worry about it one way or the other.
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