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DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

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Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#641

Post by permo-w »

chme wrote: post #638
wyager wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's better to have smaller firms that don't (or less frequently) damage society I'm not sure about that - I really like my lifestyle which would be nearly impossible to attain in Europe, but is very attainable for Americans. I don't see how you're materially better off because you're forced to use foreign companies (Google, Facebook, etc.) instead of having your own.

What are you talking about? I am unable to follow your reasoning, maybe you can walk us through?

I think he's saying that, yes, this regulation means that your own companies are more ethical, but European consumers end up using these less-regulated American companies anyway. this is true, but this problem has started to be solved by the EU anyway, for example, with the Digital Markets and Services Acts

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#642

Post by taneq »

rainsford wrote: post #524
redserk wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To start: I do not trust the CCP, but my trust in the American legal system has been waning. What's the legal recourse for a US Citizen served with a dodgy FISA-related subpoena/warrant? Or if a government agency wants to purchase tracking data that includes my phone from a data collection agency? Say the state of Texas purchases geotracking data for app users who cross state lines.

Apple famously told the FBI to go pound sand when asked to help access an iPhone in an actual terrorism case (i.e. it wasn't about going after dissidents or journalists or anything), even though such help was definitely within Apple's technical power. Now, while admitting that I am no way claiming the US is perfect, does anyone actually think something even remotely similar would ever happen between a Chinese company…

They sure did! They also (was it around that time? I forget...) pushed pretty hard for everything to be stored in iCloud, where coincidentally it's not protected by any of the on-device security and can (as I understand it) be legally requisitioned by the authorities. Happy to be corrected (with sources) if I'm wrong here but otherwise this seems very much on par.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#643

Post by kuschku »

troupo wrote: post #628
kuschku wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And once you've got control of one EU country, expanding to another EU country is just as complicated as expanding to the US is. So if you're spending the same effort anyway, expanding to the US with 300 million people is much more profitable than expanding to Germany with 80 million people, or the Netherlands with 20 million people. Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in t…

> Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in that order. Which is verifiably false. Spotify launched in 2006, and expanded into the US in 2011. You truly believe that it never expanded in the EU in the intervening 5 years? How then did it launch in the UK in 2009? Or how did it have a million paying customers in the EU by the time they launched in the US?

There's literally a section on the Wikipedia article detailling how it launched in a handful of countries, expanded to the US, and only then expanded to most of the EU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify#Geographic_availabilit...

Spotify launched in Sweden, Finland, France, Norway, Spain, followed by the United Kingdom and the Netherlands.

After the US expansion, Spotify finally expanded to Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia and Switzerland

That means Spotify launched for 222 million europeans, expanded to 300 million US-americans, before becoming available for the remaining 281 europeans.

You'd never see a US company launching e.g. only for Washington, Oregon, California and Nevada, expanding to China, and only afterwards become available in the remaining states.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#644

Post by troupo »

kuschku wrote: post #643
troupo wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in that order. Which is verifiably false. Spotify launched in 2006, and expanded into the US in 2011. You truly believe that it never expanded in the EU in the intervening 5 years? How then did it launch in the UK in 2009? Or how did it have a million paying customers in the EU by the time they launched in the US?

There's literally a section on the Wikipedia article detailling how it launched in a handful of countries, expanded to the US, and only then expanded to most of the EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify#Geographic_availabilit... Spotify launched in Sweden, Finland, France, Norway, Spain, followed by the United Kingdom and the Netherlands. After the US expansion, Spotify finally expanded to Andorra, Austria, Belgi…

They launched in 7 countries before launching in the US. In the same year as they launched in the US they also launched in 4 other countries.

In 2012, after their "expansion" in the US they had five times as many paying users outside the US as in the US.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#645

Post by kuschku »

troupo wrote: post #644
kuschku wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's literally a section on the Wikipedia article detailling how it launched in a handful of countries, expanded to the US, and only then expanded to most of the EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify#Geographic_availabilit... Spotify launched in Sweden, Finland, France, Norway, Spain, followed by the United Kingdom and the Netherlands. After the US expansion, Spotify finally expanded to Andorra, Austria, Belgi…

They launched in 7 countries before launching in the US. In the same year as they launched in the US they also launched in 4 other countries. In 2012, after their "expansion" in the US they had five times as many paying users outside the US as in the US.

I edited the comment with a few more numbers, if you'd like to re-read it.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#646

Post by troupo »

kuschku wrote: post #645
troupo wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They launched in 7 countries before launching in the US. In the same year as they launched in the US they also launched in 4 other countries. In 2012, after their "expansion" in the US they had five times as many paying users outside the US as in the US.

I edited the comment with a few more numbers, if you'd like to re-read it.

> Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in that order.

All that matters is the original comment: "Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in that order."

Where reality is Spotify became available in 7 countries before attempting to expand in the US.

Which is, funnily, what you literally wrote in your edit:

> That means Spotify launched for 222 million europeans, expanded to 300 million US-americans, before becoming available for the remaining 281 europeans.

Edit Where by "expanded to the US" is literally "failed to capture any significant market for a long time"

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#647

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

redserk wrote: post #504
Workaccount2 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think they're explicitly a CCP data-collection front In China you cannot not be explicitly a CCP data-collection front. China doesn't bring evidence to a judge in order to get a subpoena for data. They just go to DJI an get it. DJI has zero legal recourse if the CCP wants access to all DJI's stored data. Doesn't matter where that data is stored. Same thing for tiktok and why legislators are killing that too.…

To start: I do not trust the CCP, but my trust in the American legal system has been waning. What's the legal recourse for a US Citizen served with a dodgy FISA-related subpoena/warrant? Or if a government agency wants to purchase tracking data that includes my phone from a data collection agency? Say the state of Texas purchases geotracking data for app users who cross state lines.

> my trust in the American legal system has been waning.

Why? We just watched a former POTUS and the current POTUS's son get convicted of felonies in courts with juries. Is there a better test of the legal system?

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#648

Post by kuschku »

troupo wrote: post #646
kuschku wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I edited the comment with a few more numbers, if you'd like to re-read it.

> Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in that order. All that matters is the original comment: "Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in that order." Where reality is Spotify became available in 7 countries before attempting to expand in the US. Which is, funnily, what you literally wrote in your edit: > That means Spotify launched…

> Edit Where by "expanded to the US" is literally "failed to capture any significant market for a long time"

Sure, but they still decided to expand to the US, despite a worse outlook, before expanding to the remaining EU countries. As said, you'd never see a US company do that.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#649

Post by troupo »

kuschku wrote: post #648
troupo wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in that order. All that matters is the original comment: "Which is why Spotify became available in Sweden, the US, and the rest of the EU in that order." Where reality is Spotify became available in 7 countries before attempting to expand in the US. Which is, funnily, what you literally wrote in your edit: > That means Spotify launched…

> Edit Where by "expanded to the US" is literally "failed to capture any significant market for a long time" Sure, but they still decided to expand to the US, despite a worse outlook, before expanding to the remaining EU countries. As said, you'd never see a US company do that.

The US is a large, rich homogeneous market with a population of over 300 million. There's no wonder foreign companies want to get a foothold in this market, and it's no wonder US companies don't tend to look outside of the US until there's nothing to do in the US.

I don't think anyone disagrees about that.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#650

Post by coolg54321 »

taneq wrote: post #640
dji4321234 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can only be side-loaded on Android, because their app breaks a number of policies on privacy and data gathering. I don't think this is the reason, I think it's more that they're just too lazy to jump through the approval and maintenance hoops that come with an app store, especially because their home market (China) doesn't even use the Play Store. The iOS version of their app is Apple-approved and present in the…

I haven't used a DJI drone since I got my Spark, so this is a few years out of date, but when I set that up the procedure was incredibly locked down and invasive. You had to install the app, which had to have full access to everything, and which had to have an active internet connection to update the drone firmware. So at the least, it was extorting your physical location, details of any wifi network, access to phone…

Their newer drones support DJI RC[0] so you don't have to worry about installing their app on your phone and giving all the permissions. I use it with my DJI Mini 3 Pro, another advantage is that you don't have to worry about phone battery

[0] https://www.dji.com/rc

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