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EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#281

Post by DaSHacka »

Dalewyn wrote: post #275
anal_reactor wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US American freedom of speech aka "you can literally be fired and see your life ruined for having a political opinion but you won't go to jail so be thankful"

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. The 1st Amendment guarantees you the right to say whatever the fuck you want, with some very specific caveats concerning disturbing the peace, but freedom is power and power is responsibility.

> Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

How is the US different from any other country in history in that regard?

You can be in North Korea and freely criticize the government, you're just not gonna be "free from the consequences".

Turns out, being protected from the 'consequences' is what actually matters.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#283

Post by theshrike79 »

godelski wrote: post #70
pera wrote: post #69

The proposal leaked a few weeks ago[1] is extremely vague on this matter and does not clarify how providers should detect CSAM "prior to transmission". Is anyone aware of any sort of scanning technology that can be implemented purely on the client side? Note that the leaked text says that it should be able to detect known and new abuse material. [1] https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2024/05/2024-05-28_Cou...

Microsoft: Replay Apple: Their CSAM detection system that was lambasted not too long ago[0] [0] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...

Ahh, the Misunderstanding Olympics of 2021

The Apple system was pretty much the best way this could be done short of having a 100% reliable "AI" system on-device detecting bad stuff.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#284

Post by mike_hearn »

adammarples wrote: post #254
switch007 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Following WW2? The European Union was established in 1993 with the Maastricht Treaty

The EU is an evolution of the EEC which is much older. The whole federation as a concept was made after and in response to WWII

The European Coal and Steel Community wasn't meant to be a political federation, as the name shows. Nor was the European Economic Community to give it its full name.

The concept of the ECSC/EEC/EU as a political federation was always a goal of some small number of federalists (mostly in the beginning communists who were imprisoned on Ventotene during the war), but they didn't have any support for that from the people of Europe themselves, which is why the history of the EU is full of the people building it saying explicitly that they have to lie about their true intentions and can only expand its powers during a crisis.

Certainly there was absolutely no intent anywhere immediately after WW2 to create a political federation. Far from it.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#285

Post by Dalewyn »

DaSHacka wrote: post #281
Dalewyn wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. The 1st Amendment guarantees you the right to say whatever the fuck you want, with some very specific caveats concerning disturbing the peace, but freedom is power and power is responsibility.

> Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. How is the US different from any other country in history in that regard? You can be in North Korea and freely criticize the government, you're just not gonna be "free from the consequences". Turns out, being protected from the 'consequences' is what actually matters.

You can say Boe Jiden is a purple Martian born in Backwaterstan.

Boe Jiden will probably sue you for defamation.

The courts will very likely give him the win, slamming you with a hefty fine and perhaps more such as prison time depending on the damages your speech incurred.

You can say Boe Jiden is a purple Martian born in Backwaterstan again, so long as you're fine going through that rigmarole again though you'll probably face even heftier penalties.

You are in no way prevented from voicing your thoughts because the 1st Amendment guarantees your right to do so. You can only ever be prosecuted for the consequences, such as the fallout from making false statements.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#286

Post by magicalhippo »

account42 wrote: post #273
magicalhippo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the point that countries with close economic ties have more to lose by going to war with each other.

A point fully disproven by Putin by now.

I don't think that's right.

Economic interdependence is a deterrent against war, not an absolute barrier.

If you can easily swap trade partners for example, it's less of a deterrent. Which is one of the reasons why EU has gone beyond simple import/export agreements.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#287

Post by joha4270 »

switch007 wrote: post #263
joha4270 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European Coal and Steel Community , which in many ways is the precursor organization to EU was formed in 1951, with the explicit goal of linking the German and French economies to such a degree that they would be incapable of waging war against each other.

And a complete shadow of the current EU. Should we call a current intel CPU an 8086? I only make the point because the current EU is so far removed in scope from the initial post-WW2 version

We do call current intel CPU x86.

As so many things, the organization we now call EU has changed over time. Pretending it formed ex nihilo in 1993 is at least as silly as ignoring what came before.

Reality is messy and drawing hard lines can easily discard a lot of nuance. But if I have to, I would place the foundation of the EU in the post-war era, not at the Maastricht Treaty

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#288

Post by clemiclemen »

seydor wrote: post #280
anigbrowl wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU was established to provide mutual economic and military security in Europe on a federal model following WW2, and it's done very well in that aim. Of course it's not perfect, but shallow takes like the one above provide nothing of value.

For military and political security there is NATO. The EU's mutual defense clause is an empty shell

The implicit line here is that if there is peace, then there is military security. And the EU has been pretty good at providing that within its borders (compared to the history of wars between countries of the EU).

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#289

Post by anal_reactor »

Dalewyn wrote: post #285
DaSHacka wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. How is the US different from any other country in history in that regard? You can be in North Korea and freely criticize the government, you're just not gonna be "free from the consequences". Turns out, being protected from the 'consequences' is what actually matters.

You can say Boe Jiden is a purple Martian born in Backwaterstan. Boe Jiden will probably sue you for defamation. The courts will very likely give him the win, slamming you with a hefty fine and perhaps more such as prison time depending on the damages your speech incurred. You can say Boe Jiden is a purple Martian born in Backwaterstan again , so long as you're fine going through that rigmarole again though you'll pr…

You have exactly described how freedom of speech works in North Korea. You are allowed to say "I think that Kim is a bad leader", which is guaranteed by the article 67 of The Socialist Constitution of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. But this doesn't mean you can spread untrue claims and cause societal disrupt, so Kim arrests you for your reckless actions and you go to gulag.

Again, freedom of speech exists in North Korea and it's protected by law, it's just that you're not free from the consequences of abusing freedom of speech.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#290

Post by pantalaimon »

worldsayshi wrote: post #93
gpvos wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would my device be (self-)reporting?

All legal apps have to be self reporting I guess... So whenever you send anything to example.com you also send it to government-snooping-service.org?domain=example.com. And if you refuse to adjust your app you will get fined I guess. Will curl have to self report every request? Lol... Every client? Like will axios need to self report?

> So whenever you send anything to example.com you also send it to government-snooping-service.org?domain=example.com.

No, it's client side scanning - you have a database with bad material / a neural network trained to detect such material. Only when it detects a positive match, it will contact the government server.

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