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Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

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Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#61

Post by dandanua »

cypherpunks01 wrote: post #32

Was anyone else bothered by how Oppenheimer declined to show even a single scene of the devastation that was caused by dropping nuclear weapons on Japan? I otherwise liked the film, but I thought it was wrong to hide it from viewers. The bombing was the central plot point of the whole film. It would have been different if it was a new director, or surprise hit or something, but Nolan knew it would be seen by many mil…

The film was made for entertainment. It doesn't teach morality or answers hard existential questions. It's a comics inspired by reality, in my opinion.

Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#62

Post by userbinator »

frozenbit wrote: post #7

It’s been posted on HN before, but if this topic interests you, John Hersey’s famous reporting on the aftermath at Hiroshima (entitled “Hiroshima”) is worth reading. It’s essentially a short book, but the accounts laid out in the story make the impersonal tragedy into something that’s tangible. It should be required reading.

...and just in case you're tempted to take sides, don't forget about Pearl Harbor nor the Nanjing Massacre either.

Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#63

Post by defrost »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #60
defrost wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides, Japan might ask for reparations one day. For the 72 other Japanese cities thoroughly levelled just as Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, or just for the two cities each destroyed by a single bomb? Regardless of what the film showed or not there's no shortage of public domain material showing the destruction in Japan and side by side comparisons of the firebombing of Tokyo against the ruins of Hiroshima. It's har…

The claim rests on the simple to understand principle that purposely targeting civilians (entire cities of civilians) for destruction is a war crime. Should the American Empire falter one day, the claim will be made with just cause. Just because things are one way today, does not meant forever will be.

So the Tokyo firebombing alone is sufficient then?

Coupled with 71 other cities (besides H&N) that were largely civilian targets that seems more than enough.

Okay, the question posed above remains, what does that have to do with Hiroshima | Nagasaki, and the (non) depictions within a recent film?

Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#64

Post by juliushuijnk »

userbinator wrote: post #62
frozenbit wrote: post #7

It’s been posted on HN before, but if this topic interests you, John Hersey’s famous reporting on the aftermath at Hiroshima (entitled “Hiroshima”) is worth reading. It’s essentially a short book, but the accounts laid out in the story make the impersonal tragedy into something that’s tangible. It should be required reading.

...and just in case you're tempted to take sides, don't forget about Pearl Harbor nor the Nanjing Massacre either.

I've taken sides.

Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#65

Post by dukeofdoom »

defrost wrote: post #63
dukeofdoom wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim rests on the simple to understand principle that purposely targeting civilians (entire cities of civilians) for destruction is a war crime. Should the American Empire falter one day, the claim will be made with just cause. Just because things are one way today, does not meant forever will be.

So the Tokyo firebombing alone is sufficient then? Coupled with 71 other cities (besides H&N) that were largely civilian targets that seems more than enough. Okay, the question posed above remains, what does that have to do with Hiroshima | Nagasaki, and the (non) depictions within a recent film?

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the pinnacle event that solidified the US being a nuclear super power. Its willful use of nuclear weapons on civilians is one of the main ways the US projected power in the last century. The movie not showing how the sausage was made, is because Hollywood has a tendency to show propaganda movies. US good, world bad.

This movie had a huge reach.

"Economist / YouGov Poll, which found that 32% of U.S. adult citizens say they had seen "Barbie" and 24% had seen "Oppenheimer."

A nuclear conflict with Russia, is what is on the table.

Perhaps, if US citizens were exposed to graphic brutality of what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it might sway political opinion. And for example influence the next election.

>So the Tokyo firebombing alone is sufficient then?

Is it sufficient for you? It might not be for some people.

However, all plausible deniability is lost, that you're not targeting civilians when you nuclear bomb their city.

If Putin deployed nuclear weapons on Kiev tomorrow, with the goal of ending the war faster, it would be a war crime. I hope we agree.

Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#66

Post by defrost »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #65
defrost wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the Tokyo firebombing alone is sufficient then? Coupled with 71 other cities (besides H&N) that were largely civilian targets that seems more than enough. Okay, the question posed above remains, what does that have to do with Hiroshima | Nagasaki, and the (non) depictions within a recent film?

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the pinnacle event that solidified the US being a nuclear super power. Its willful use of nuclear weapons on civilians is one of the main ways the US projected power in the last century. The movie not showing how the sausage was made, is because Hollywood has a tendency to show propaganda movies. US good, world bad. This movie had a huge reach. "Economist / YouGov Poll, wh…

You haven't advanced the odd assertion made here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713250 that some outside force prevented the director from depicting scenes of nuclear devastation.

There are films, some from US directors, that already make such depictions.

You'd make a far better case if you made more concrete claims that could be backed up, eg: that the director in question made a number of past films and wanted to make future films that had US DoD support with access to real military equipment (this is a thing) that would otherwise be unobtainable | cost vast sums of money .. and the rider that comes with such cooperation is an agreement not to depict US military in particular ways.

This reparations line isn't particularly convincing.

Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#67

Post by refurb »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #60
defrost wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides, Japan might ask for reparations one day. For the 72 other Japanese cities thoroughly levelled just as Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, or just for the two cities each destroyed by a single bomb? Regardless of what the film showed or not there's no shortage of public domain material showing the destruction in Japan and side by side comparisons of the firebombing of Tokyo against the ruins of Hiroshima. It's har…

The claim rests on the simple to understand principle that purposely targeting civilians (entire cities of civilians) for destruction is a war crime. Should the American Empire falter one day, the claim will be made with just cause. Just because things are one way today, does not meant forever will be.

They weren't targeted purposefully for killing civilians. Where did you get that from?

The Target Committee nominated five targets: Kokura (now Kitakyushu), the site of one of Japan's largest munitions plants; Hiroshima, an embarkation port and industrial center that was the site of a major military headquarters; Yokohama, an urban center for aircraft manufacture, machine tools, docks, electrical equipment and oil refineries; Niigata, a port with industrial facilities including steel and aluminum plants and an oil refinery; and Kyoto, a major industrial center.

Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#68

Post by spike021 »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #53
jebarker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a similar vein, going to Hiroshima and the Peace Memorial Museum there was a life changing experience for me.

Would you mind talking about it a little? What you saw, how you felt, how you feel now—anything. Like with the Holocaust memorial and the Berlin Wall, these are things that have deeply affected me to see in person and comprehend what they represent, but I came away from a better person for it in the long-term—even if it broke me mentally at the time to be there and face it. Nuclear weapons really disturb me on a whol…

Not GP but what made me empathize the most was they didn't just have like architectural artifacts with the damage. They had written things like letters or journals. They had extremely personal accounts, some with photos, of what happened to people. The stories of extremely young children (8 years old or younger) trying to care for their parents before the parents succumbed to injuries. Kids becoming orphaned. Parents being unable to find their children. The physical results, like people's nails growing extremely oddly and totally black, skin no longer looking healthy in obscene ways.

It was honestly a bit like _being there_. Everything they have at that museum, if you have even a relatively vivid imagination, easily placed me in my mind's eye, like I was in Hiroshima for the aftermath.

Even with all this said, I'm still mostly speechless about everything I saw and read there.

I really recommend if you ever get to Japan to make some time to visit Hiroshima. Not even just for the memorial. It's actually quite a beautiful city.

Re: Tsutomu Yamaguchi – A man who survived both atomic bombings (2023)

#69

Post by _xnmw »

Reminds me of when the full-scale invasion started in Ukraine, I was in Kharkiv, and I met several people for whom "this was not their first war". The neighbour's family was from Nagorno-Karabakh, and had just fled the Armenia-Azerbaijan war that started a year earlier, the taxi driver was a Syrian refugee, and Kharkiv has many people from the Donbass region where the war started years before.

People who have experienced one extremely unlikely event are more likely to experience it again, see Poisson clumping (although I know this type of event is not independently random). Ernest Hemingway and his wife survived two plane crashes a day apart.

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