wasn't there a specific lobbying group pushing for this kind of legislation in some places (connected to the makers of software for this type of scanning)?
EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
191–200 of 360 posts
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#192Signal Foundation has already said they would leave the EU if Chat Control goes ahead. https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450
Signal isn't big enough to play that game. They'll just be blocked from the app store for EU users and their user base in the EU will drop to near zero within a year.
Would Signal allow an app to be side loaded? Would it be possible for an Signal-like app to be loaded that would ruin everything for everybody?
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#193I can see how that would be implemented for WhatsApp and other apps from large companies. But how would that work in practice for applications like Matrix where clients are not controlled by the server operator nor the server developer? Some questions I have from reading Patrick's website: - How do you even ensure a client is actually self-reporting? On-device attestation doesn't really work. - As a provider of E2EE…
Matrix is a software, it's not a provider. It's out of scope. (see 1. on page 37 for scope)
see page 39 "5. Without prejudice to Article 10a, this Regulation shall not prohibit or make impossible end-to-end encryption, implemented by the relevant information society services or by the users"
https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2024/05/2024-05-28_Cou...
see also page 46
"... measures shall be ... targeted and proportionate in relation to that risk, taking into account, in particular, the seriousness of the risk as well as the provider’s financial and technological capabilities and the number of users; ..."
also, it's a big framework without any tech requirements (see page 8 recital 17)
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Signal isn't big enough to play that game. They'll just be blocked from the app store for EU users and their user base in the EU will drop to near zero within a year.
Would Signal allow an app to be side loaded? Would it be possible for an Signal-like app to be loaded that would ruin everything for everybody?
Android does. Apple doesn't, obviously. Even in the EU where they have to.
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#195It will be very interesting to see the responses of WhatsApp and Apple if this moves forward. Do their commitments to E2EE mean anything or not. Will iMessage and WhatsApp leave the EU or not. That would be extremely telling as to the actual quality of the security guarantees they purport to provide.
Wouldn't client side scanning prior to E2EE circumvent this issue? If WhatsApp or iMessage scan your messages on device it doesn't really matter if they are then encrypted during transmission.
The end-result is the same. There is no security if someone is snooping over your shoulder.
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
To be fair, I'm the only who we know for certain interpreted your comment in the way I did, and I vouched/unflagged it. Who knows why anyone else would flag it?
Since you unflagged it and appear to be suddenly as befuddled as I am about why it was flagged in the first place it seems that you agree with me that it shouldn't have been.
I'd be pretty concerned about these mysterious false flags.
P.S. - Mr Slater immediately jumped to your defense with the usual party line. Possibly a bit too quickly this time, your overwhelming fairness is showing guys. I'm touched.
I'm more partial to the theory tonynator puts forth.
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
They decisively said “this was a bad idea” and disavowed the effort.
Things change, especially when the Gov says they must. It’s already been a few years. Given the “Apple in China” precedent I wouldn’t be so optimistic.
Their argument was that ”with this you don’t need to ban encryption”, and they tried to prevent that regulation.
Look what we got…
I am sure that no single implementation is as sophisticated as Apple had.
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Unfortunately outside the US and a handful of other places free speech doesn't seem to be valued that much, often it's even viewed as a threat Can you convince me of this? Because it's not my impression.
>> Unfortunately outside the US and a handful of other places free speech doesn't seem to be valued that much, often it's even viewed as a threat >Can you convince me of this? Because it's not my impression. In my country (Macedonia), our then-Prime Minister a few years ago during the height of the pandemic, spoke (broken) English and funnily pronounced vaccines, something like "vac-signs" (or "vaksajns" in Macedonia…
America also sometimes sends police to doors over domain names.
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honest question: why would a free speech absolutist start a discussion here, on this site? I have a feeling that plenty of rules here [0] wouldn't be accepted by such a crowd. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Free Speech as a political principle is about relations between a state, and citizens, not a website, and its users. There are some gray-zone cases (e.g. formally private press/platforms can be heavily influenced by a ruling party using economic means, or for whatever reason some press/platform conglomerate controls market share so big it can influence gov't to legislate conditions harmful to potential competition),…
So I could have no ability to say anything at all, and still have free speech?
Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow
#200I already kicked up a shit here in NL together with a few other well connected people (with success) but it's a little frustrating that there's little more to do other than hope that nerds in other EU countries can make a difference.
What would you suggest to citizens from other member states (France in my case) to do to sway representatives against this?