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EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#11

Post by lxgr »

belter wrote: post #7

EU is, and always was, a compensation job for failed national politicians at their respective national levels. It's the trade horse for allowing your party buddies to take over the government jobs. EU politicians should keep their over inflated salaries, and stick to what they are good at. Meeting with Google and Microsoft lobbyists at the best Brussels luxury restaurants.

> Meeting with Google and Microsoft lobbyists at the best Brussels luxury restaurants.

Are you talking about the same EU that just passed the DMA? That must have been some really nasty food poisoning then!

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#12

Post by delichon »

FredPret wrote: post #4

This is why the roles of the major players in society (government, monopolies) need to be circumscribed. Large organizations will always try to grow in size and power. We need some sort of human right for digital privacy to make this sort of thing illegal.

> This is why the roles of the major players in society (government, monopolies) need to be circumscribed ... We need some sort of human right for digital privacy to make this sort of thing illegal

The entities that need to be circumscribed need to enforce a law that circumscribes themselves? Those incentives do not seem to align to form a stable structure.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#13

Post by Wytwwww »

FredPret wrote: post #4

This is why the roles of the major players in society (government, monopolies) need to be circumscribed. Large organizations will always try to grow in size and power. We need some sort of human right for digital privacy to make this sort of thing illegal.

Tell that to the people cheering the EU "sticking it" to the megacorporations like Apple. Not that those policies were bad on their own but we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking that the bureaucrats in Brussels ever cared about anything else than exerting their power and control over anything they can touch...

The administrative budget of the EU should be cut by 3-4x times and the money should be spent on something more useful because clearly they are out of control and have nothing better to do. While we're at turning Belgium into something like DC and disenfranchising their government/people living there wouldn't be the worst idea since they clearly have been co-opted into propagating this nonsense.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#14

Post by pantalaimon »

elric wrote: post #10
linuxandrew wrote: post #3

Signal Foundation has already said they would leave the EU if Chat Control goes ahead. https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450

That's an interesting thread ... they claim they won't be compliant, which I applaud, but what will happen is that unwitting Signal users will end up being targeted by law enforcement. There are already precedents of people with "secure" phones or encrypted messaging apps being targeted, such as the Sky ECC case.

If Signal can’t be installed or updated via the App Store anyone, that’s already enough to exclude 99.9% of all users - no need to involve law enforcement.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#15

Post by Wytwwww »

elric wrote: post #10
linuxandrew wrote: post #3

Signal Foundation has already said they would leave the EU if Chat Control goes ahead. https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450

That's an interesting thread ... they claim they won't be compliant, which I applaud, but what will happen is that unwitting Signal users will end up being targeted by law enforcement. There are already precedents of people with "secure" phones or encrypted messaging apps being targeted, such as the Sky ECC case.

> will happen is that unwitting Signal users will end up being targeted by law enforcement

Seems like a good thing. If nothing else works at least that might bring some attention to this nonsense..

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#17

Post by Wytwwww »

wafflemaker wrote: post #9
linuxandrew wrote: post #3

Signal Foundation has already said they would leave the EU if Chat Control goes ahead. https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450

Thanks to hn crowd, who explained it's not super difficult (and not going to lie, summer $500 discount), a Google pixel phone, soon running GrapheneOS, is on it's way. Can GrapheneOS prevent detection of somebody sideloading Signal?

Probably not but you still need to have someone to someone to communicate with even if you manage to install it. If you can't get it on the mainstream app stores it will just be a niche app for "privacy nerds" and drug dealers (in the EU at least..)

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#18

Post by FredPret »

delichon wrote: post #12
FredPret wrote: post #4

This is why the roles of the major players in society (government, monopolies) need to be circumscribed. Large organizations will always try to grow in size and power. We need some sort of human right for digital privacy to make this sort of thing illegal.

> This is why the roles of the major players in society (government, monopolies) need to be circumscribed ... We need some sort of human right for digital privacy to make this sort of thing illegal The entities that need to be circumscribed need to enforce a law that circumscribes themselves? Those incentives do not seem to align to form a stable structure.

The only way is to have a broad-based idea among the people about exactly what is allowed for a government and a big business.

There's a strong and widespread expectation among many that it's morally imperative for them to be able to elect their own government. So any moves by the government to limit this will be met by fierce resistance.

If a similar idea existed about privacy, these sneaky moves wouldn't be feasible and would leave a bad taste in the mouths even of the perpetrators. Unfortunately, many among us are of the "But I've got nothing to hide" persuasion.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#19

Post by amelius »

wafflemaker wrote: post #9
linuxandrew wrote: post #3

Signal Foundation has already said they would leave the EU if Chat Control goes ahead. https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/112535616774247450

Thanks to hn crowd, who explained it's not super difficult (and not going to lie, summer $500 discount), a Google pixel phone, soon running GrapheneOS, is on it's way. Can GrapheneOS prevent detection of somebody sideloading Signal?

Will you convince all your friends and family to start running GrapheneOS?

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#20

Post by Wytwwww »

lxgr wrote: post #11
belter wrote: post #7

EU is, and always was, a compensation job for failed national politicians at their respective national levels. It's the trade horse for allowing your party buddies to take over the government jobs. EU politicians should keep their over inflated salaries, and stick to what they are good at. Meeting with Google and Microsoft lobbyists at the best Brussels luxury restaurants.

> Meeting with Google and Microsoft lobbyists at the best Brussels luxury restaurants. Are you talking about the same EU that just passed the DMA? That must have been some really nasty food poisoning then!

At least far as it comes to privacy Apple and even FB, MS and Google to an extent share the same interests as their users, unlike the EU bureaucrats who just seem to be salty because they are unable to exert control over society and justify their existence (they might pass some decent policies while they are it that's just mostly a coincident..).

If Chat Control goes ahead long-term that will outweigh any benefits DMA might have.

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