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DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

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Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#371

Post by balls187 »

kube-system wrote: post #367
balls187 wrote: post #309

I cannot see how this will pass legal challenge. Banning a Drone Manufacturer simply because the manufacturer is Chinese? There aren't ties to the Chinese military, are there?

> There aren't ties to the Chinese military, are there? From a practical perspective, it could be at any time. China hasn't embraced the free market the same way the west does, and doesn't give private companies the same degree of autonomy you're used to seeing elsewhere. Broadly speaking, if the Chinese government needs a company within their jurisdiction to cooperate with them, they can enforce cooperation. As an e…

That would be an after the fact justification, which could be used to justify banning any company that operates in China.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#373

Post by RestlessMind »

mrtksn wrote: post #271
simplyluke wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d flip the question and ask you by what metrics Europes tech sector is performing comparatively well. Employment? Average salary? ARR? I struggle to think of a metric that’s a positive outlier.

Longevity, happiness, health, leisure, life satisfaction. Companies are there to make these possible, not to maximise the stock trading price. Some achieve that by making EUV lithography machines, others do chemicals or pharmaceuticals. Are you aware that you can use the developer tools in your browser to set the price of the stock or your bank account balance to anything you like? You don't have to crumble your infr…

> Longevity, happiness, health, leisure, life satisfaction

Apart from longevity[1], everything else is subjective so do you have any evidence? From what I see based on a quick search, happiness level seems same in US/Canada vs Germany/France. eg. Rankings by this[2] measure: Canada(15), USA(23), Germany(24), France(27). Or scores by this[3] measure: Canada (6.9), USA(6.7), Germany(6.7), France(6.6)

[1] Even longevity is full of caveats and nuances. When you look at life expectancy by ethnicity, a given ethnicity has similar life expectancy across different advanced countries (eg. Japanese-Americans vs Japanese in Japan). It doesn't even seem to be correlated by income in the US, because latinos have a higher life expectancy than whites[4] even though later group is richer than the former.

[2] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-...

[3] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/a-map-of-global-happiness-b...

[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9256789/

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#374

Post by bmurphy1976 »

gruez wrote: post #295
quentindemetz wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adyen Revolut GoCardless Shift Vinted …

>Adyen >Revolut Those have 1% of the revenue compared to the top American tech companies (individual, not combined). The rest are private and I suspect have even less revenue. If those are the best examples of "tech successes" you can think of, you're proving the parent commenter's point.

I don't know why the parent is calling out those companies, strange list.

Europe has plenty of very successful, influential, and tech heavy organizations. ARM and AirBus come immediately to mind. Car manufacturers such as VW or BMW. Software companies such as SAP. Some of the largest banks and fossil fuel companies in the world.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#375

Post by danaris »

EgregiousCube wrote: post #278
stavros wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Rich" people don't want socialized healthcare because of perceived or real disadvantages of that system. Not because "the poors might get it". That's fair, I should have said "because the poors might benefit". Rich people don't like socialized healthcare because they, by definition, will pay for people who can't afford it. The problem is when people who will benefit from this identify with people who will lose fro…

You'll find very few people who don't want poor people to have things and it's disingenuous to put it that way. The two commonly held arguments against socialized healthcare in America are: First, a distrust that the government will create a system that is good and a belief that quality will decrease under such a system, and; Second, that such a system would be funded by a large tax increase and that Americans are in…

> You'll find very few people who don't want poor people to have things and it's disingenuous to put it that way.

I'm afraid your experiences are not universal.

There is a very strong streak of this in the US, significantly (though probably not wholly) traceable to the Calvinist roots of the Puritans who were a profound influence on the early culture of the country. When you believe that people's position on Earth is due to their level of deserving (Just World Fallacy), it's very easy to extend that to "and therefore we shouldn't try to help poor people; they're just being punished for being bad people."

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#376

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

wyager wrote: post #366
nkrisc wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, those pesky consumers getting in the way of the innovation of the free market with their protections. If only they could be fully exploited for maximum value extraction without interference.

This attitude is why EU countries are mostly quite poor compared to the US and have relatively unproductive and low-tech economies. You bring it upon yourself.

People die from inability to afford something as fundamental as healthcare in the US. You are poorer than any European ever could be.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#377

Post by freedomben »

lawlessone wrote: post #47
henvic wrote: post #28

DJI is, by far, the best drone equipment brand for photography, industrial usage, etc. It's disheartening to witness the US embracing protectionism for high-tech. If the United States does this, it might as well join the European Union's decadence in killing tech startups by stifling the competitiveness of their market...

>If the United States does this, it might as well join the European Union's decadence in killing tech startups by stifling the competitiveness of their market... I can still buy a DJI drone here in Europe. What stifling are you referring to?

I think the situation is far more nuanced than what will be debateable here, but I've had friends that tried to do tech startups in Europe and ended up moving to the US and doing it here. This is surely not a representative sample so take with a grain of salt, but generally speaking this is their (paraphrased) analysis:

In Europe it just takes a lot more capital investment to get started. You can't do it as a side-gig with a hope/dream working nights and weekends like you can in the US. The process to MVP is just way more complicated because there's a ton of compliance/legal stuff that has to be there at launch. The actual product might take 60 hours of work to build, but then there's another 200 hours of compliance to do which doesn't add any product value at all. You also typically have to hire an expert to help at least consult, because trying to do it all yourself just requires you to have a ton of expertise that no single person ever has. Hiring is also a mixed bag. Market salaries in Europe are a lot less which helps, but firing a bad fit is also way harder so there's big risk. You also can't offer stock-based comp as much in Europe as you can in the US, which all serves to make it harder to get launched.

Once you reach a certain scale, Europe can be just as friendly or more-so than the US, but that scale acts as a great filter for people that don't already have the deep pockets to fund things on their own to get to that point, and most investors won't take that kind of risk without validating product-market fit. The European culture of more longevity also makes it easier in some ways to keep a young company stable because people aren't constantly leaving and you aren't constantly in bidding wars for talent. Overall it's just a mixed bag, but that early filter is why you don't see as many working-class people doing a tech startup in Europe and making it big. On the flip side, when companies make it through that filter, they tend to be a lot healthier and more viable, and quality tends to be higher. Again these are generalities.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#378

Post by TaylorAlexander »

FredPret wrote: post #331
Kye wrote: post #318

Maybe I never got to the part of an economics education that covers exceptions having stopped at intro econ, but don't trade wars almost always lead to bad times?

The theory is that it leads to worse outcomes for the weaker partner and less-bad outcomes for the stronger one. - People used to think Japan was going to overtake the USA, until a short trade war in the 80's sent Japan on a downward spiral. - The trade war against Russia hurt the West a lot with higher energy and food prices, but it whacked the Russian economy very much harder. - The same thing can be said for the W…

Isn’t the US the weaker partner here?

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#379

Post by consumer451 »

ninininino wrote: post #145

In this thread, people not understanding that we've literally watched in the past year as consumer drones with IEDs attached to them have made the $10 million M1 Abrams tanks obsolete and what that means for war and its downstream implications for manufacturing bases.

Although it should be noted that it's not DJI drones doing that damage. They seem to be used for spotting, while more DIY-style FPV drones are the ones blowing up tanks.

Of course, those parts likely also come from sources in China. However, the software is more along the lines of FOSS like ArduPilot or PX4.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#380

Post by RestlessMind »

kube-system wrote: post #263
simplyluke wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d flip the question and ask you by what metrics Europes tech sector is performing comparatively well. Employment? Average salary? ARR? I struggle to think of a metric that’s a positive outlier.

Vacation time.

Pfft. Iran, Burkina Faso, Cambodia and Bahrain beat "Europe" handily on that metric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...

Let's have those countries as our role model then? /s

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