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DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

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Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#351

Post by [deleted] »

chme wrote: post #308
henvic wrote: post #28

DJI is, by far, the best drone equipment brand for photography, industrial usage, etc. It's disheartening to witness the US embracing protectionism for high-tech. If the United States does this, it might as well join the European Union's decadence in killing tech startups by stifling the competitiveness of their market...

Most hardware has no reason to require direct internet access or an account with the manufacturer to work. If some device requires internet access, then it cannot be trusted to not transmit personal data, therefore it should be possible to replace the software on that device, so that something that is trusted by the consumer can be installed. While DJI here might create good hardware, their internet and account requi…

[deleted]

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#352

Post by forloni »

TheChaplain wrote: post #328

I don't trust DJI. I was looking to replace my GoPro with the DJI Action, but their app was not on the Play-store. It can only be side-loaded on Android, because their app breaks a number of policies on privacy and data gathering. I believe I saw a site that decompiled their app and found a number of worrisome things.

This whole thing is about the trade war with China.

Attacking successful Chinese companies with pretenses.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#353

Post by consumer451 »

clutchdude wrote: post #343
TheChaplain wrote: post #328

I don't trust DJI. I was looking to replace my GoPro with the DJI Action, but their app was not on the Play-store. It can only be side-loaded on Android, because their app breaks a number of policies on privacy and data gathering. I believe I saw a site that decompiled their app and found a number of worrisome things.

For those looking for more info: https://blog.grimm-co.com/2020/07/dji-privacy-analysis-valid... https://www.synacktiv.com/en/publications/dji-pilot-android-... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/dji-drones-se...

And also:

https://blog.quarkslab.com/dji-the-art-of-obfuscation.html

Discussed at length here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39438842

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#354

Post by mike_d »

segasaturn wrote: post #324
chme wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most hardware has no reason to require direct internet access or an account with the manufacturer to work. If some device requires internet access, then it cannot be trusted to not transmit personal data, therefore it should be possible to replace the software on that device, so that something that is trusted by the consumer can be installed. While DJI here might create good hardware, their internet and account requi…

While I agree with you, I doubt banning Chinese tech will remedy this problem. My experience is that American brands are much, much more aggressive about making you connect to the internet, install our apps, create an account, subscribe to our newsletter etc. Look at the difference between iRobot and Chinese robot vacuums on Amazon - the difference is night and day.

> American brands are much, much more aggressive about making you connect to the internet, install our apps, create an account

This whataboutism ignores one very important point.

When you connect a device to an American company they might do things that we consider privacy violations, while still staying generally within the bounds of the law. We like to joke about data going to the NSA or something, but in the extremely limited cases where it does protections exist with oversight.

Contrast this to Chinese companies where by law every company is part-owned by the government itself. The Ministry of State Security literally has employees who show up to these companies every day like normal workers, but their job is to find and exploit intelligence on foreign individuals and businesses.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#355

Post by hatsix »

segasaturn wrote: post #324
chme wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most hardware has no reason to require direct internet access or an account with the manufacturer to work. If some device requires internet access, then it cannot be trusted to not transmit personal data, therefore it should be possible to replace the software on that device, so that something that is trusted by the consumer can be installed. While DJI here might create good hardware, their internet and account requi…

While I agree with you, I doubt banning Chinese tech will remedy this problem. My experience is that American brands are much, much more aggressive about making you connect to the internet, install our apps, create an account, subscribe to our newsletter etc. Look at the difference between iRobot and Chinese robot vacuums on Amazon - the difference is night and day.

Depends on what you consider the "problem". As Congress sees it, the problem is two-fold... You have no control over your data. The company that does have control over your data is beholden to a foreign country not currently considered "a close ally".

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#356

Post by arjvik »

chme wrote: post #340
SSLy wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bi annual push for chat control (key „escrow”)

Granted the chat control issue, is unfortunate on the privacy front, however I wouldn't call it a hindrance on innovation. IMO, often innovation happens because it is motivated to work around rules and regulations. So in many cases regulation and rules are what drives innovation. People want to hack the system and thus have to innovate. A completely hacked and open system doesn't really inspire new ideas, because the…

You're talking about innovations in "working around the system." These are often orthogonal to innovations in actual tech.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#357

Post by freedomben »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #341
influx wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the counter examples to highlight Europe's tech successes? Skype? Nokia? Soundcloud? Spotify?

I bet the hardware you're running on wants to have a word. Wether if it's from Samsung, Apple, Google, Microsoft, NVIDIA or AMD. And lately, Intel too. ASML

Aren't those American companies (other than Samsung)? I mean, they're all global/multi-national like most big corps, so it's not as clean as that. But it seems like you're actually agreeing with the parent...

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#358

Post by MonkeyClub »

nostrademons wrote: post #269
beloch wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a Canadian, U.S. trade protectionism is nothing new. It happens all the time and frequently targets allies like Canada rather than rivals like China. What U.S. citizens should watch out for is when U.S. protectionism winds up hurting the U.S.'s own economy. e.g. Tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber may have helped out a few U.S. softwood lumber producers with good lobbyists (and Jimmy Carter), but the incr…

That's a large part of the issue, though. The narrative 10 years ago was that we were preventing Chinese from dumping low-cost crap on the U.S. market. Okay, fair enough, keep the crap out. But recent U.S. protectionism has been targeting very high-quality, best-in-class Chinese manufacturers that honestly outcompete anything their U.S. competitors bring to market. Without that competition, there's no incentive for U…

I don't think they were just

> a couple hundred years behind

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#359

Post by moduspol »

stavros wrote: post #237
danem wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The resistance to socialized healthcare in America can be easily understood without resorting to bizarre strawmen about hating poor people. Healthcare is of course a huge part of our economy and lives. Many (most?) people are satisfied with the status quo and are hesitant to see (what they consider to be) a huge increase in government power, spending, and general involvement in their lives. It's the same impulse that…

Will it be a huge increase in spending? Isn't it estimated to reduce costs by a lot?

We do not have an established history of accurately predicting or managing the costs of overwhelmingly expensive government programs, at least here in the US.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#360

Post by mardifoufs »

mrtksn wrote: post #344
mardifoufs wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no speculative stocks in Europe? Seriously? I guess if you ignore all the stock markets in Europe, sure? Also, it's funny that you mention Goebels. It's ironic even when you repeat the same tropes about the US and how it's supposedly beholden to the capital markets and speculators. Europe has its giants. Europe usually does not attack its giants. That's why you get megacorps like Maersk or Airbus or Volkswage…

Europe is far from noble, just different mentality and expectations from life. VW keep saying that next year VW Golf robotaxis are coming and not delivering wouldn't fly, therefore we don't have crazy stock prices. Airbus keeps making good quality planes that don't fall from the skies, selling those then flying around. It's alright, I don't know why the government should attack Airbus but maybe the US government shou…

Sure but that wasn't the main thrust of what I was replying to. Also, I guess it only has its own Wireguards or (if we want to talk about inflated promises instead of outright fraud) hundreds of start up like Qwant that promised to challenge the big American man in (2) more weeks or just a few more subsidies.

The only difference is that we hear a lot more about American success and failures as they are sadly utterly dominant in media presence way beyond their own borders. And Europe seems much more likely to just keep its skeletons hidden in its closet, and tries to talk about them as little as possible.

(For example,see how the German regulators dealt with Wireguard by going after the journalists that sounded the alarm for years. Or how Europeans love to discuss American issues like racism while ignoring how much worse the issue can be in their own backyard. Or the commenters here that recoil at any criticism of the EU and invent some conspiracy where said criticism obviously comes from. I never see any American accuse Europeans of being behind sentiment that is critical of the US.)

Americans love to be very loud about their issues, for better or for worse.

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