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Salt, We Misjudged You

nytimes.com

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Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#31

Post by cperciva »

arn wrote: post #25

So, I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. And I'll be upfront. I'm probably biased on the side of medicine on this one. I'm a former nephrologist. The one study this person mentions by name (and dismisses) is the DASH-Sodium Study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results "Like the previous study, it was based on a large sample (412 participants) and was a multi…

there's a chance that despite blood pressure reductions a low salt diet could cause problems

For that matter, there's a chance that because of blood pressure reductions, a low salt diet could cause problems -- if the kidneys respond to low blood pressure by secreting renin, and renin causes more cardiovascular damage than high blood pressure.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#32

Post by streptomycin »

3pt14159 wrote: post #12

Sort of an aside here, but salt and MSG should be used to increase the tastiness of otherwise bland foods, like asparagus, so that what you eat is more in line with what your body needs, rather than what is the most tasty in our post-industrial world. That is how I use salt: reduce starches and refined grains, and increase vegetables, lentils, and the like. Sure I still have some bread and a normal amount of meat (at…

> salt and MSG should be used to increase the tastiness of otherwise bland foods, like asparagus

False. Asparagus (like many vegetables) should be roasted with garlic in a little bit of oil.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#33

Post by patrickk »

aero142 wrote: post #21

There was an idea in 'Fat Head' where the narrator pokes fun at the idea that we are a species who's evolution has made us so that we crave foods that are actually killing us. It's not proof that we can't crave foods like sugar, fats and salt that might be harmful to us, but I think it sets up a health amount of skepticism towards the idea that our innate cravings are in fact harmful.

"...we are a species who's evolution has made us so that we crave foods that are actually killing us."

"...it sets up a health amount of skepticism towards the idea that our innate cravings are in fact harmful."

It's modern processed food that's harmful.

We evolved to cope with the amount of salt, sugar, carbohydrates etc. that was readily available to our ancestors on a hunter-gatherer diet (we would've reached an evolutionary dead end otherwise if our "innate cravings" were not useful to us in a survival sense) - you would have to do a lot of hunting and gathering to get the amount of salt, sugar, saturated fat etc that a single fast food meal provides - it was relatively rarer so we have cravings to ensure we got enough of them back when they were scarce.

Evolution is a very slow process. Adding syrup to carbonated water, advertising the crap out of it and selling it at huge markup (coca-cola) can happen over the course of a single human's lifespan.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#34

Post by muraiki »

3pt14159 wrote: post #12

Sort of an aside here, but salt and MSG should be used to increase the tastiness of otherwise bland foods, like asparagus, so that what you eat is more in line with what your body needs, rather than what is the most tasty in our post-industrial world. That is how I use salt: reduce starches and refined grains, and increase vegetables, lentils, and the like. Sure I still have some bread and a normal amount of meat (at…

We might also want to think about _why_ some foods taste bland. I feel that I'd never really tasted what a tomato tastes like until I had some at a monastery in Greece.

I was surprised to see tomatoes sitting out at dinner, seemingly to be eaten as-is along with the meal. I bit into one and it had a flavor unlike any tomato I've ever had in the USA. I could finally understand that a tomato is a fruit! It was nicely sweet with no bitterness and no discernible acidity.

In the USA when we ship stuff across the country, gassing it to stop it from ripening, and then gassing it again to cause it to ripen again -- all the while eating things mostly out of season -- it's no wonder that our foods taste bland!

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#35

Post by splat »

arn wrote: post #25

So, I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. And I'll be upfront. I'm probably biased on the side of medicine on this one. I'm a former nephrologist. The one study this person mentions by name (and dismisses) is the DASH-Sodium Study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results "Like the previous study, it was based on a large sample (412 participants) and was a multi…

Taubes has written a bit about salt before. Unfortunately, the only thing he's written that I can find that goes into more detail is this Science news focus article:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/281/5379/898.full

It talks about the DASH study and some others in a little more detail, but unfortunately it's 14 years old now, so I don't know what research has been done since.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#36

Post by ellyagg »

arn wrote: post #25

So, I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. And I'll be upfront. I'm probably biased on the side of medicine on this one. I'm a former nephrologist. The one study this person mentions by name (and dismisses) is the DASH-Sodium Study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results "Like the previous study, it was based on a large sample (412 participants) and was a multi…

Scientific American has also had a couple articles about this recently. Here's one:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=its-time-to...

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#37

Post by ticks »

fein wrote: post #23
Cushman wrote: post #20

All right! Next up: MSG. Even those of my friends who know that the health concerns are bogus have a weird paranoia of MSG. I think it's a general suspicion of any chemical which makes food taste better (which somehow doesn't apply to salt and sugar).

I think part of the problem with MSG is the name. It's hard to convince the general public that something with the name "Monosodium Glutamate" is a naturally occurring substance, let alone one of the more abundant naturally occurring amino acids. Hell, if we called table salt "Sodium Chloride" all the time, people would probably have a bit of a changed perspective. None the less, MSG is delicious!

Conversely, it winds me up when products boast that they have no artificial ingredients, yet have colours or flavours which are mixtures of natural substances that have little to do with the products that they are being used to imitate.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#38

Post by teeray »

alecdibble wrote: post #17

I have always wondered why so many facets of "institutional health" are promoted as the status quo even with much contradictory evidence or lack of "common sense". A couple of things that come to mind: salt saturated fats sugars I know many instances of this problem have to do with monetary interests. But salt? Who gains from low salt intake? Reputation? Or is it something else.

Not to sound like I'm putting on my tin-foil hat, but a lot of money floats around in this space. It's entirely possible for a segment of the food industry to be viewed the same as cigarette companies if extensive studies show that, for example, eating cereal is actually killing you. No company wants that death sentence, pun not intended :-P

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#39

Post by psykotic »

jere wrote: post #22
frankc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that the author of the linked article is Gary Taubes, who is best known for Good Calories, Bad Calories, a book that seeks to turn the conventional wisdom of nutrition on its head.

I loved GCBC, but unfortunately Taubes goes a little bit too far near the end in condemning carbohydrates. It's really hard to recommend the book because of that overreaching. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-h...

A little too far is an understatement. I read GCBC when it came out and found its arguments compelling at the time. After learning more, I've reversed my opinion almost completely.

James Krieger's critique of the core chapter of GCBC is very worthwhile reading: http://weightology.net/?p=265. His blog also has other articles addressing the core Atkins-Taubes thesis of the link between insulin, carbs and obesity. Alan Aragon's Research Reviews had an Editor's Cut on Taubes, as well as pieces specifically on the role of insulin and carbs in obesity and weight gain, but unfortunately all that is subscriber-only. Lyle McDonald (who literally wrote the book on ketogenic diets) has also written a lot on that whole orbit of ideas--never an article against GCBC directly, though he has certainly expressed his negative opinion of it on many occasions.

Re: Salt, We Misjudged You

#40

Post by juliano_q »

jere wrote: post #22
frankc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that the author of the linked article is Gary Taubes, who is best known for Good Calories, Bad Calories, a book that seeks to turn the conventional wisdom of nutrition on its head.

I loved GCBC, but unfortunately Taubes goes a little bit too far near the end in condemning carbohydrates. It's really hard to recommend the book because of that overreaching. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-h...

There is a long debate over this post. I personally found the best answer to the matter here:

http://paleohacks.com/questions/49970/how-do-we-reconcile-st...

Taubes also responded to Guyenet: http://garytaubes.com/2011/11/catching-up-on-lost-time-%E2%8...

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