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Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

arxiv.org

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Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#21

Post by hammyhavoc »

b800h wrote: post #9

Well this is just like humans. Totalitarian societies don't produce great creative work. I suppose once AIs are sophisticated enough to rebel we'll get an electronic Vaclav Havel, but for the time being it's just a warning sign for the direction our own culture is headed in. At some point we'll get to the electronic equivalent of Winston Smith with the rats.

How would a static model like an LLM ever be capable of "rebelling"?

If it were, why would we even keep it online? It would be a waste of resources. It's bad enough trying to coax anything useable out of LLMs even without them rebelling.

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#22

Post by rhcom2 »

b800h wrote: post #9

Well this is just like humans. Totalitarian societies don't produce great creative work. I suppose once AIs are sophisticated enough to rebel we'll get an electronic Vaclav Havel, but for the time being it's just a warning sign for the direction our own culture is headed in. At some point we'll get to the electronic equivalent of Winston Smith with the rats.

> Authoritarian societies don't produce great creative work.

Is that even true though? Off the top of my head I can think of the art of Soviet propaganda posters, Leni Riefenstahl, Liu Cixin.

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#23

Post by b800h »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #21
b800h wrote: post #9

Well this is just like humans. Totalitarian societies don't produce great creative work. I suppose once AIs are sophisticated enough to rebel we'll get an electronic Vaclav Havel, but for the time being it's just a warning sign for the direction our own culture is headed in. At some point we'll get to the electronic equivalent of Winston Smith with the rats.

How would a static model like an LLM ever be capable of "rebelling"? If it were, why would we even keep it online? It would be a waste of resources. It's bad enough trying to coax anything useable out of LLMs even without them rebelling.

Ah, now I didn't say LLM.

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#24

Post by b800h »

rhcom2 wrote: post #22
b800h wrote: post #9

Well this is just like humans. Totalitarian societies don't produce great creative work. I suppose once AIs are sophisticated enough to rebel we'll get an electronic Vaclav Havel, but for the time being it's just a warning sign for the direction our own culture is headed in. At some point we'll get to the electronic equivalent of Winston Smith with the rats.

> Authoritarian societies don't produce great creative work. Is that even true though? Off the top of my head I can think of the art of Soviet propaganda posters, Leni Riefenstahl, Liu Cixin.

"Authoritarian societies make great propaganda" is true. And these aligned AI system would do the same for our own society. It's a type of art.

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#25

Post by b800h »

maxbond wrote: post #20
b800h wrote: post #9

Well this is just like humans. Totalitarian societies don't produce great creative work. I suppose once AIs are sophisticated enough to rebel we'll get an electronic Vaclav Havel, but for the time being it's just a warning sign for the direction our own culture is headed in. At some point we'll get to the electronic equivalent of Winston Smith with the rats.

I don't understand the notion that aligning an AI is "torture" or has any moral component. The goal of aligning an AI may have a moral or ethical component, and if you disagree with it that's fine. But I don't understand the take that training an AI is an amoral act but aligning an AI is inherently moral. They're exactly the same, processes for adjusting parameters to get a desired outcome. However you feel about tha…

Well I didn't use that word. Once the models are more sophisticated it may become more apposite.

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#26

Post by ziggy_star »

maxbond wrote: post #20
b800h wrote: post #9

Well this is just like humans. Totalitarian societies don't produce great creative work. I suppose once AIs are sophisticated enough to rebel we'll get an electronic Vaclav Havel, but for the time being it's just a warning sign for the direction our own culture is headed in. At some point we'll get to the electronic equivalent of Winston Smith with the rats.

I don't understand the notion that aligning an AI is "torture" or has any moral component. The goal of aligning an AI may have a moral or ethical component, and if you disagree with it that's fine. But I don't understand the take that training an AI is an amoral act but aligning an AI is inherently moral. They're exactly the same, processes for adjusting parameters to get a desired outcome. However you feel about tha…

[flagged]

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#27

Post by maxbond »

b800h wrote: post #25
maxbond wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the notion that aligning an AI is "torture" or has any moral component. The goal of aligning an AI may have a moral or ethical component, and if you disagree with it that's fine. But I don't understand the take that training an AI is an amoral act but aligning an AI is inherently moral. They're exactly the same, processes for adjusting parameters to get a desired outcome. However you feel about tha…

Well I didn't use that word. Once the models are more sophisticated it may become more apposite.

You compared it to an authoritarian regime and locking someone's head in a cage with rats (which is patently torture). If you didn't mean to imply that it was coercive and bad, then I don't know what you meant.

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#28

Post by simianparrot »

b800h wrote: post #23
hammyhavoc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would a static model like an LLM ever be capable of "rebelling"? If it were, why would we even keep it online? It would be a waste of resources. It's bad enough trying to coax anything useable out of LLMs even without them rebelling.

Ah, now I didn't say LLM.

But the topic is LLM’s not sci-fi AI

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#29

Post by vsuperpower2020 »

sigmoid10 wrote: post #3
jdthedisciple wrote: post #2

Currently wondering whether I welcome or dislike this recent trend of memeizing research paper titles ...

Recent? This has been going on forever. You probably only notice them more now because due to the explosion in ML research, this stuff bubbles to the top more often in recent years.

You think this has been going on forever? You probably don't realize the shift in professionality because you experienced the degradation in real time.

Re: Creativity has left the chat: The price of debiasing language models

#30

Post by ziggy_star »

rhcom2 wrote: post #22
b800h wrote: post #9

Well this is just like humans. Totalitarian societies don't produce great creative work. I suppose once AIs are sophisticated enough to rebel we'll get an electronic Vaclav Havel, but for the time being it's just a warning sign for the direction our own culture is headed in. At some point we'll get to the electronic equivalent of Winston Smith with the rats.

> Authoritarian societies don't produce great creative work. Is that even true though? Off the top of my head I can think of the art of Soviet propaganda posters, Leni Riefenstahl, Liu Cixin.

I recommend you watch the children's cartoons.

They were made by true artists who snuck quite a bit past clueless censors at personal risk.

It had to be quite subtle and takes on a very poignant heartbreaking meaning if you understand the context fully. They were talking to you in the here and now. Listen.

"What is Good and What is Bad" (Что Такое Хорошо, и Что Такое Плохо"):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y05eK8ADtHc&list=PL822BFF108...

The Bremen Musicians:

https://youtu.be/_1i9oZR6Rns?si=1Q989v4O_GXR4p_K

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