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I learned Haskell in just 15 years
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Re: I learned Haskell in just 15 years
#12What's the benefit of learning a PURE functional programming language, opposed to just using a language which has adapted the best bits and pieces from the functional programming paradigm?
Given that you want write code that sees "real world" use, and is used to handle data and events from the real world. To me, sometimes the line between optimized code and intellectual curiosity blurs.
Re: I learned Haskell in just 15 years
#13Cute. All kidding aside, though, functional programming is worth the effort to learn, and it doesn't actually take 15 years. The payoff is at the end of the article: "It’s quite natural to program in Haskell by building a declarative model of your domain data, writing pure functions over that data, and interacting with the real world at the program’s boundaries. That’s my favorite way to work, Haskell or not." Haskel…
But why do we need Haskell for this?
Realistically we don't but it's very rare to meet a programmer who understands these distinctions thats not also a great functional programmer.
This is my experience after spending five years as a Haskell programmer and managing a Haskell team for several years and now moving back to the c++ world to play with AI.
I know lots of good c++ programmers working on cutting edge stuff, real experts in their field, but they sometimes still don't have a clear way to understand how to model data
That is my opinion. It's probably highly contentious.
Re: I learned Haskell in just 15 years
#14What's the benefit of learning a PURE functional programming language, opposed to just using a language which has adapted the best bits and pieces from the functional programming paradigm? Given that you want write code that sees "real world" use, and is used to handle data and events from the real world. To me, sometimes the line between optimized code and intellectual curiosity blurs.
This is all myth. People don't write Haskell, because they read why other non-Haskellers also don't write Haskell, based on what other non-Haskellers wrote.
> a language which has adapted the best bits and pieces from the functional programming paradigm?
Why write in a statically-typed language when dynamically-typed languages have adapted the best bits and pieces from statically-typed languages?
Re: I learned Haskell in just 15 years
#15Cute. All kidding aside, though, functional programming is worth the effort to learn, and it doesn't actually take 15 years. The payoff is at the end of the article: "It’s quite natural to program in Haskell by building a declarative model of your domain data, writing pure functions over that data, and interacting with the real world at the program’s boundaries. That’s my favorite way to work, Haskell or not." Haskel…
That’s interesting because F#’s OOP, as someone who knows neither C# nor Java, makes it more intimidating to me than OCaml. Also interesting that when FP is mentioned, Hindley-Milner is implicitly understood to be part of FP too even though it doesn’t have to be. Clojure emphasizes immutability and FP but with dynamic typing and everything that comes with that.
> Clojure emphasizes immutability
Is "emphasizes" just another word for second-class support?
C++ emphasizes the importance of memory safety.
Re: I learned Haskell in just 15 years
#16Great read! Can anyone here recommend a good resource for learning Haskell that's in the style of "Text-Mode Games as First Haskell Projects"? Haskell has been on my radar since forever, and I've got some FP concepts internalized by making a side project in F#, but I have no idea what a monad really is and a fun prohect to code along might be perfect.
Re: I learned Haskell in just 15 years
#17Great read! Can anyone here recommend a good resource for learning Haskell that's in the style of "Text-Mode Games as First Haskell Projects"? Haskell has been on my radar since forever, and I've got some FP concepts internalized by making a side project in F#, but I have no idea what a monad really is and a fun prohect to code along might be perfect.
I've been learning Unison [1] and I highly recommend. It's a Haskell-like language, but with some really interesting ideas around how code should be managed and distributed. They also use use algebraic effects (represented with "abilities" in Unison) instead of Monads, which gives some interesting advantages [2].
[1] https://www.unison-lang.org/
[2] https://www.unison-lang.org/docs/fundamentals/abilities/for-...
Re: I learned Haskell in just 15 years
#18Great read! Can anyone here recommend a good resource for learning Haskell that's in the style of "Text-Mode Games as First Haskell Projects"? Haskell has been on my radar since forever, and I've got some FP concepts internalized by making a side project in F#, but I have no idea what a monad really is and a fun prohect to code along might be perfect.
Kind of ironically I've enjoyed the 'Write Yourself a Scheme in 48 Hours'[1] which goes over how to write your own Scheme in Haskell. It introduces some of the more interesting monads although I'm not sure how idiomatic it is.
[1] https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Write_Yourself_a_Scheme_in_48_...
Re: I learned Haskell in just 15 years
#19Cute. All kidding aside, though, functional programming is worth the effort to learn, and it doesn't actually take 15 years. The payoff is at the end of the article: "It’s quite natural to program in Haskell by building a declarative model of your domain data, writing pure functions over that data, and interacting with the real world at the program’s boundaries. That’s my favorite way to work, Haskell or not." Haskel…
That’s interesting because F#’s OOP, as someone who knows neither C# nor Java, makes it more intimidating to me than OCaml. Also interesting that when FP is mentioned, Hindley-Milner is implicitly understood to be part of FP too even though it doesn’t have to be. Clojure emphasizes immutability and FP but with dynamic typing and everything that comes with that.
Doesn't the "O" in OCaml stand for "Object", though? I think you could pick up either F# or OCaml just as easily.
The nuances of OOP in F# can be ignored by beginners, so I really wouldn’t let yourself be intimidated coming from Clojure.