Once I had a dog and I watched him as he slept. One minute, he suddenly started moving the tips of his paws as if he were running somewhere. A moment later, he began to move his jaw as if he started to eat something. Right after that, a bit more paw movement, and he began to smack his tongue as if he were drinking something. Then again, he started moving his paws as if he ran off somewhere. So: he ran to the bowl of food, ate, went over to the bowl of water, drank some water, and ran off again. A little while later, he woke up. That’s when I invited him to eat. Since that time, I have never doubted either that animals have some kind of consciousness or that animals can dream.
Are animals conscious? New research
41–50 of 544 posts
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#42It doesn't take a genius to notice animals are conscious. Only to prove it and convince their human peers that this is the case. I guess.
To prove this would require being able to very clearly define consciousness, but we know that consciousness is not “a thing”— it’s rather “a collection of things”, and it’s not either there or not; rather it’s largely a question of degree. And I don’t just mean this as inter-species variation either: even if we only look at humans, humans exhibit the whole spectrum and/or patchwork of states of consciousness, both developmentally and pathologically. And to some extent, physiologically too.
I find it annoying how we’re even entertaining the idea that animals wouldn’t be conscious. Like what does that even mean?
All these people who aren’t convinced that animals are conscious… I’d really like to know what specific behaviour would convince them one way or another. Pick pretty much any behaviour, and you’ll find animals (and even insects) displaying it.
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#43It doesn't take a genius to notice animals are conscious. Only to prove it and convince their human peers that this is the case. I guess.
Especially when you consider humans are animals too.
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#44> An early effort came in the 17th century, by the French philosopher René Descartes who said: "I think therefore I am."
He added that "language is the only certain sign of thought hidden in a body".
That line of reasoning is exactly how some people can consider LLMs conscious, yet seriously doubt whether any animals are.
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#45> Prof Chittka’s experiments showed that bees ... seemed to be able to play, rolling small wooden balls, which he says they appeared to enjoy as an activity. But can they understand the offside rule?
Neither do most people. Which implies ...
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#46Obviously they are. If consciousness even means anything.
They have theory of mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saRsq9pe9Hc
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#47If they weren't conscious, then their love for us would be meaningless.
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#48> We now know that bees can count, recognise human faces and learn how to use tools. I was curious what that means in this context and found this research (co-authored by Prof Chittka mentioned in the article): https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou... Apparently only a small minority of bumble bees can figure out how to pull a string to access a reward, but then other bees adopt the behavior by…
"Apparently only a small minority of bumble bees can figure out how to pull a string to access a reward, but then other bees adopt the behavior by mimicry."
Replace bumble bees with human beigns and "pull a string" with an engineering task and you'll find we are not so different. /sarcasm, but not too much, average human being is quite dumb, tbh.
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#49> We now know that bees can count, recognise human faces and learn how to use tools. I was curious what that means in this context and found this research (co-authored by Prof Chittka mentioned in the article): https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou... Apparently only a small minority of bumble bees can figure out how to pull a string to access a reward, but then other bees adopt the behavior by…
That's ok. Moving the goalposts (in good faith) is part of the proceed of understanding the question we're trying to answer. Some times you don't realize you don't understand the question until you start thinking about it.
Re: Are animals conscious? New research
#50> Prof Chittka’s experiments showed that bees ... seemed to be able to play, rolling small wooden balls, which he says they appeared to enjoy as an activity. But can they understand the offside rule?
They said "intelligent", not "superintelligent".