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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#261

Post by swiftcoder »

alan-hn wrote: post #249
pineaux wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can even use a completely enclosed chain guard. You see them quite often in the Netherlands and will keep your chain out of the rain and dust, this lowers maintenance cost and lifetime significantly. The only problem is, is that this kind of guard typically is quite susceptible to damage if the bike falls or when you hit something. Otherwise it is in many ways superior to a belt. Belts are inherently inefficient…

Why are belts inherently inefficient compared to a chain?

Belts have slightly higher friction. Although I'd argue that the convenience is worth the loss in efficiency for most non-competitive cyclists.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#262

Post by fireflash38 »

nox101 wrote: post #158
petre wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? Exercise and silence.

Most bikes are not silent. Worse, it's getting popular to make them loud. I was looking for an e-mtb recently. Tried a Trek ($4.5k down from $7.5k), ridiculously loud hub. Sales person claimed (falsely) that the more pro the hub the louder. Talked to another dealer who gave me the same story.

MTB hubs are noisy as hell anyway, and yes, the more expensive the MTB the noisier the hub. For pedal bikes it's about being able to pedal without doing a full rotation and not losing power or wasting energy

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#264

Post by abdulhaq »

daliusd wrote: post #141
ARandomerDude wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

You can attach trailer to bicycle and use it to transport your kids to nursery/school during winter. There I live both things would be illegal with motorcycle.

Sounds very dangerous to me

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#265

Post by aziaziazi »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #129
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of range in internally-geared hubs though, from the crazy end with the $1500 Rohloff 14sp to the $80 Sturmey-Archer 3sp. I commute on a Shimano Alfine 11sp that's ~$200 which isn't exactly "a tenner" but if you add up the price of a derailleur, cassette, chainrings, etc. I don't think it's much different?

One of the really weird things with bikes is that entry level bikes tend to be 3x7 which means that you have a lot of extra weight and complexity (a second shifter, shift cable, and front gears) for pretty much no benefit over a 1x9 system.

Customer benefit: Longevity. 3x7 chains and cassette last wayyy longer than 1x9 (and usually have a bigger ratio). 9s cassettes are not wider than 7s but instead each gears and spaces are narrower. The chain then need to be thinner resulting in faster elongation (=wearing).

Single speed and 3s chains last 5000km easily while 12/13s won’t last much more than 1000km.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#266

Post by switch007 »

makingstuffs wrote: post #9
_oyks wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the same bikes magically not fail and have cheaper replacement motors in the fabled Dutch paradise?

As someone living in London and travelling to The Netherlands on a regular basis (intending to migrate), I have to say, pretty much everything from public transport to supermarket design seems of a much, much higher standard than its British equivalent. Further to that, it generally feels as though the UK is a country massively in decline and this transcends down to the quality of goods which we pass as acceptable. T…

The Dutch trains (the rolling stock) are a joke for such a rich country but I love everything else about the Dutch railway

And yes overall everything in the NL seems better quality

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#267

Post by dylan604 »

Aurornis wrote: post #134
jameshart wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not casting doubt on your numbers here, but to put some perspective on how much usage that implies: 100km every weekday means literally hours of use every day - we're talking about an e-bike that must average what, 20-25km/h at most? That's assuming you're not in stop-start urban traffic. So four or five hours a day? I guess if you're doing a school run that's 30 mins there and 30 mins back, morning and afternoon, pl…

> 100km every weekday means literally hours of use every day And multiple batteries per day. I suppose it’s possible if someone’s entire day revolved around e-biking everywhere most of the day and they live in an area that’s relatively flat and there’s not a lot of stop and go and the trips fit into the charge of a single battery and so on. I like biking a lot, but spending hours and hours on an ebike doing errands e…

> And multiple batteries per day.

That's not necessarily true. My battery is rated for 45 miles, and I get every bit of it. I typically only do about 15-20 miles daily, but I have a weekly ride that is a little over 30 miles which after that the battery still shows 2 of 5 bars remaining. It all depends on how much output you're getting from your meat motor.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#268

Post by InSteady »

adrianN wrote: post #126
dgacmu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gear advantage of a mid-drive rocks but I was quite surprised that I chewed through a rear cassette in under a year / about 1k miles -- a 250W motor + heavy cargo bike + kid passenger + a large and pretty strong rider exert an awful lot of force. And with the assist, I almost never use the larger cogs, so all the wear gets concentrated. (This compares to many, many thousand miles on my road bike.) Still love the…

I manage to ruin chain and cassette in under a year on my acoustic bike. The trick is to ride fast in all weather and never clean the chain.

Congratulations, your brief comment has managed to trigger me in 3 different ways.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#269

Post by notnmeyer »

tacticalturtle wrote: post #89
lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

derailleurs are easy to adjust once you understand how. 99% of the time you only need the high and low limit adjustments.

decent bikes derailleur hangers.

they’re simple and they work reliably enough. why do we need something more complicated?

building a touring bike for remote areas? reliability wins, internal transmission and belt drive sounds smart.

otherwise, your money is better spent on nicer brakes, lighter weight wheels, nice hubs, etc.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#270

Post by InSteady »

dylan604 wrote: post #267
Aurornis wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 100km every weekday means literally hours of use every day And multiple batteries per day. I suppose it’s possible if someone’s entire day revolved around e-biking everywhere most of the day and they live in an area that’s relatively flat and there’s not a lot of stop and go and the trips fit into the charge of a single battery and so on. I like biking a lot, but spending hours and hours on an ebike doing errands e…

> And multiple batteries per day. That's not necessarily true. My battery is rated for 45 miles, and I get every bit of it. I typically only do about 15-20 miles daily, but I have a weekly ride that is a little over 30 miles which after that the battery still shows 2 of 5 bars remaining. It all depends on how much output you're getting from your meat motor.

To add perspective, I have a battery rated for 70 miles, which so far seems fairly realistic if I stick to slower speeds and lower assist settings that have me putting in a bit of effort. I went ahead and bought an extra battery just for the hell of it so I have the option of riding out to hiking trails or the coast. Plus I don't own a car, so putting in a ton of miles in a day without worrying about charge is worth the expense (also easier to keep them in the 20% - 80% charge window for the sake of longevity).

So far I've done 40 miles in a day several times simply commuting and running errands, and it goes fairly quick with a top speed of ~25mph if I'm in a rush. Point being, people shouldn't be so quick to make assumptions about other people's use cases. I used to commute 30 miles per day to work on a touring bike, plus extra for errands and activities. Yes, it is a lot of time riding, but often it felt like recreation especially since much of my commute was scenic on a dedicated bike trail through natural areas.

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