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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#251

Post by willcipriano »

alan-hn wrote: post #248
Etheryte wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really seeing the argument. I've never had a derailleur break, if anything, this sounds like some supreme yak shaving. Granted, I don't ride bikes for a living, but I ride a bike every day and durability isn't even remotely as big of an issue as you make it out to be.

Have you ever rode a bike with a $10 derailleur for a long time? I'm guessing there are differences in part durability

I have. The welding that held the handlebars in place was the first to go, twice.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#252

Post by c0nsumer »

infecto wrote: post #246
c0nsumer wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Note, I don't have an eBike.) Friends will sometimes give me crap for not riding in poor weather, but whether it's mountain bike, road, or gravel, riding in wet/muddy conditions just result in so much work. The bike itself gets really dirty, it gets into EVERYTHING. Wear on brake pads and drivetrain are accelerated. Stuff doesn't work right. Post-ride it requires so much cleanup that it can take just as long as the…

Not to joke too hard but how long do you ride usually? To me a solid post ride cleanup takes 10mins tops. Thousands of miles on my dirty moutain bike and stuff still works right. Sure I replace parts that wear but seems insignificant.

I'm mostly thinking of dirt roads which have been treated with a chloride spray. And I'm being a wee bit hyperbolic with the cleanup time, but an hour ride can result in an hour+ of cleanup if I need to get the (corrosive) chloride gunk out of all the bits around brake rotors, in the cassette, and all the little spaces around the crank arms.

We have a lot of very sandy soil around here as well, so if it's really wet the dirt absolutely tears up brake pads.

(That's a worst case.)

A particularly pointed example is the Iceman Cometh Challenge bike race. It's 2-3 hours for most people, but after the bad-conditions years it was common for folks to be replacing brake pads, jockey wheels, and aluminum chainrings. Plus the added suspension seal wear because for most of the event the seals were working hard clearing gunk from the stanchions.

EDIT: Or Barry-Roubaix, a gravel race in Southwest Michigan (US) that's on similar roads. Typically a 2 hour race for the most popular distance, but on some of the wet years it absolutely trashed bikes due to all the abrasive muck being thrown around.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#253

Post by c0nsumer »

jorvi wrote: post #250
infecto wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to joke too hard but how long do you ride usually? To me a solid post ride cleanup takes 10mins tops. Thousands of miles on my dirty moutain bike and stuff still works right. Sure I replace parts that wear but seems insignificant.

Yes I am very confused by that statement as well. After rides on muddy trails I just hose my bike down, pat the metal parts dry and apply grease to relevant parts. Any city bike worth its salt will have a chain case and long inverted U-shaped fenders that will redirect dirty spray away from you. You won’t get off completely clean but maybe 99% clean? Maybe OP just has really cheap bikes.

Nope, I'm talking about riding fairly high end gravel bikes on Southeast Michigan (US) dirt roads on which the surface has been treated with a chloride spray which acts as a binder and water repellent for the road surface. The treatment keeps light rain from saturating the road surface, which keeps the road nice for longer.

If it's been wet enough for the surface to get soft and sloppy, once this flings up on a bike it dries hard. This material requires a solid soaking on the bike to get it to soften before it can be cleaned off, and it also is highly corrosive to metal due to the salt content. (Unless it's had time to soak in water runs off of it.) So it takes a fair bit of time and effort, and it's pretty much required that, you get it off of all metal parts including chain, cassette, rotors, bolts, etc. Depending on the ride I've also had to pull the fork because enough has flung up into the lower headset bearing that it'll be problematic if left alone.

By design it doesn't just rinse off, so time and a lot of water and a brush with soap (typically dish soap) and a rag is needed to get it clean and back to a sane state. And sometimes disassembly.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#254

Post by acdha »

nox101 wrote: post #159
ARandomerDude wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

I'm curious too when bikes became that expensive. I just recently started looking for a new bike. Every major bike brand (Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, Orbea, Canyon, Santa Cruz, etc...) all sell bikes between $4000 an $18000! That's regardless of whether they are e-bikes or non-e-bikes. When did bikes get that expensive? I bought a "brand name bike" just like 6 years ago for $900 and thought I was going way out of…

Even 20 years ago, $900 was on the lower side for a serious bike but the big thing to remember is that e-bikes are transformative: they make daily commuting practical for many people who are not avid cyclists and especially so for parents.

That means you should compare them to cars: I bought a cargo e-bike for just under $3k when I needed to take my son and all of his stuff to daycare near my office ~6 miles away. I certainly used to bike that distance before but the weather, workday timing, etc. meant I never did it more than 3 days a week before, but the speed & cargo capacity of the e-bike made it my preferred option every day.

The other people who didn’t live within walking distance all drove, so their trips took longer door to door (congestion around the school alone was 20 minutes) and my expensive e-bike was the equivalent of a couple months of what they spent on SUV payments, parking, gas, and insurance. Plus my son _loved_ going on the bike every day (it helped that we went by the train yard) while most of his classmates protested going in the car because they’re so isolated with nothing to see.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#255

Post by macrolime »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #130
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #29

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

With an ebike you can ride in bike lanes, sidewalks and many other places motorcycles are not allowed. They can also park loads of places motorcycles aren't allowed plus you get exercise.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#256

Post by macrolime »

IshKebab wrote: post #155
Too wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convenience and sense of freedom. No license required, can lend it to friends or kids. Can be parked anywhere. Can be loaded on a car, ferry and some places even the metro. Can ride them on bike lanes, the forest and the sidewalk. More approachable diy maintenance. Don't need full leather protection, just a helmet and t-shirt and you are good to go. If you are only traveling max 30km within the town, you don't need a…

> Can be parked anywhere Jesus I wouldn't park a $15k bike anywhere...

If you're afraid of it getting stolen you can buy insurance.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#257

Post by heresie-dabord »

ode wrote: post #182
heresie-dabord wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If in a dry climate, a derailleur transmission can last a long time and will be cheap to maintain. But once a person starts replacing quality components with like quality, especially in a wet climate, a derailleur transmission can be expensive over 10 years. The set of my experience is { Shimano: [ $various_derailleurs, Nexus 3, Nexus 7, Alfine 11 ] , Rohloff: [14 speed], Other: [rear-hub e-bike] } $various_derailleu…

Why is the Nexus 3 rubbish?

Poor durability. In addition, the gear range is suitable only for short, low-effort rides. I used one for city commuting until it simply failed mechanically. In sum, the Nexus 3 is not in any way better for ownership than a working derailleur transmission. For a rental, there may be some value proposition.

The Nexus 7 proved reliable; the Alfine 11 a good value for durability and range of speeds; the Rohloff is brilliant but yes, those 14 speeds are expensive.

The choice depends on the rider's needs. I'd rather ride an IGH bicycle for the reliability and value over 10 years of riding. I'm not sure that an indifferent/infrequent bicycle user (the sort who lets things rust and never checks tire pressure) would care.

For the purpose of long commutes it's possible to buy an entire e-bike in 2024 for less than the price of a Rohloff hub alone.

The Alfine 11 and the Rohloff are brilliant. The Rohloff is a joy to use on all types of terrain. Instant shifts without fuss.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#258

Post by dsego »

londons_explore wrote: post #209
dsego wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Internal hubs are common in places where biking is common - ie. Amsterdam. And by sheer coincidence, the popularity of bicycles and internal hubs coincides with having extremely flat terrain.

Internal hubs now can have just as much range of ratios as derailleur's. They also have the benefit they can change gear while stationary (very handy for traffic lights etc) Historical (ie. 1960's) internal hubs only had 3 gears, so what you say might have led to market dominance.

Only the expensive ones have the range and you can buy a complete entry level bike for the price of a decent one. They are still heavy and have more than noticeable drag.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#259

Post by andrewshadura »

petre wrote: post #144
andrewshadura wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cube is not a very popular brand of ebikes in the Netherlands as far as I'm aware. Definitely not for city bicycles. Gazelle, Batavus, Cortina, Vogue, Azor, but Cube? Not so much.

They do have a lot of nice trekking models with upright geometry, full mudguards, rack and lights that can be used as a city bike though. Just not so many models with step through frames, aka "Dutch" bicycles.

I don't mean "Dutch" but actually bicycles built for the Dutch market, mostly by Dutch companies. And that means, among other things, bicycles that are excessively robust to avoid regular trips to service, and are built to live outside in the unpredictable and rainy Dutch weather. Cube doesn't come close to even cheaper Dutch brands. Also Cube bicycles are a maintainability nightmare with a lot of incompatible and proprietary parts.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#260

Post by mikhailfranco »

mikhailfranco wrote: post #181
lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

The black greasy dirt is an emulsion of worn tyre particles, sandy powdered dirt and maybe a little spilt fuel. It's probably toxic - the pollution from tyre wear is underestimated.

P.S. ... and brake, clutch particles too:

https://theconversation.com/air-pollution-from-brake-dust-ma...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4315878/

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