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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#151

Post by Too »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #130
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #29

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

Convenience and sense of freedom. No license required, can lend it to friends or kids. Can be parked anywhere. Can be loaded on a car, ferry and some places even the metro. Can ride them on bike lanes, the forest and the sidewalk. More approachable diy maintenance. Don't need full leather protection, just a helmet and t-shirt and you are good to go. If you are only traveling max 30km within the town, you don't need anything faster.

Bigger isn't always better.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#152

Post by Toutouxc »

jeffbee wrote: post #71

What is going on with that guy's bike. It is like the Canyonero XL Extreme of bikes. What kind of riding is it suited to? You wouldn't pop down to the grocer in a Unimog, right?

It's a regular mountain bike, one of the more offroady kinds — full suspension with generous travel, very nice all-purpose tires (Nobby Nic from Schwalbe), aggressive frame geometry. It is obviously not a commuter bike, but it isn't anything extreme, either.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#153

Post by [deleted] »

vvanders wrote: post #99
joe_the_user wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how mid-drives are significantly superior. An electric motor doesn't need any gear advantage and sending more force to the rear wheel seems like it's actually a disadvantage since it put more stress on bicycle components that are often designed for just human levels of force. As far as I can tell, the mid-drives became dominant just 'cause people wanted to have something the looked more "seamless". I have…

Electric motors have a wide power band but it isn't infinite[1], gearing does make a difference. If I'm in a higher gear on an incline my motor has significantly less usable torque vs shifting down to a gear that's closer to the power band. Now if that is worth the complexity/cost is a fair debate but there are mechanical advantages to mid-drive motors. [1] https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/ebike-motor-po…

[deleted]

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#154

Post by fulafel »

jdietrich wrote: post #112
joe_the_user wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how mid-drives are significantly superior. An electric motor doesn't need any gear advantage and sending more force to the rear wheel seems like it's actually a disadvantage since it put more stress on bicycle components that are often designed for just human levels of force. As far as I can tell, the mid-drives became dominant just 'cause people wanted to have something the looked more "seamless". I have…

In the EU, e-bikes are limited to a maximum power output of 250 watts - anything over that is a motorbike. That's basically the same power output as a decently fit cyclist. A mid-drive allows for sustained high torque even with limited power. Water ingress issues aside, mid-drives also tend to be more durable in off-road applications where the rear wheel is subject to severe shock and vibration.

Power is power, there is no combined "power + torque" that measures how much wind you have in the sails. Torque just characterises how much power you can get along different RPMs.

But the EU/UK 250 W cap is so low that it seems unlikely torque characteristics would enter the picture significantly unless you're going very slowly. I think most of the mainstream EU ebike motors are capped this way (vs designed to have a natural peak output of 250W).

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#155

Post by IshKebab »

Too wrote: post #151
ARandomerDude wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

Convenience and sense of freedom. No license required, can lend it to friends or kids. Can be parked anywhere. Can be loaded on a car, ferry and some places even the metro. Can ride them on bike lanes, the forest and the sidewalk. More approachable diy maintenance. Don't need full leather protection, just a helmet and t-shirt and you are good to go. If you are only traveling max 30km within the town, you don't need a…

> Can be parked anywhere

Jesus I wouldn't park a $15k bike anywhere...

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#156

Post by mongol »

I converted my regular bike with a Tongsheng motor. It probably is of less quality than Bosch, but I like the repairability aspects of this approach. Spare parts, instruction videos, modularity and lower price. It looks a bit uglier but has worked well for me so far, about a year of riding at least once or twice per week.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#157

Post by nox101 »

elbasti wrote: post #139
ARandomerDude wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

Serious answer: they are lighter, quieter, go slower, handle differently, and have access to different infrastructure. The lighter and slower bit may sound glib, but it makes a huge difference to what it feels like to ride them and to have them ridden around you.

a Riese and Muller is not a light bike

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#158

Post by nox101 »

petre wrote: post #140
ARandomerDude wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

> What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? Exercise and silence.

Most bikes are not silent. Worse, it's getting popular to make them loud. I was looking for an e-mtb recently. Tried a Trek ($4.5k down from $7.5k), ridiculously loud hub. Sales person claimed (falsely) that the more pro the hub the louder.

Talked to another dealer who gave me the same story.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#159

Post by nox101 »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #130
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #29

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

I'm curious too when bikes became that expensive. I just recently started looking for a new bike. Every major bike brand (Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, Orbea, Canyon, Santa Cruz, etc...) all sell bikes between $4000 an $18000! That's regardless of whether they are e-bikes or non-e-bikes.

When did bikes get that expensive? I bought a "brand name bike" just like 6 years ago for $900 and thought I was going way out of a normal budget.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#160

Post by Symbiote »

namaria wrote: post #62
dwb wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born in England, live in London, have a Dutch partner, and also travel to the Netherlands often enough. I agree completely. They have their problems too (from the political to having to tap out on buses), but the overall level of quality and care seems rather higher. The sense of decline and disengagement is strong too. Difficult to say much objective about that (though keep an eye on the turnout in the upcomin…

Why is tapping out on the bus a bad thing? It means you can pay for distance traveled instead of a flat fee.

In London it is a slight benefit to poor people with lots of time, as you can travel a long way (sometimes) on a single bus.

But the Netherlands has a country-wide system (unlike Britain) so it has this compromise of tapping out.

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