Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 329 posts

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#141

Post by daliusd »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #130
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #29

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

You can attach trailer to bicycle and use it to transport your kids to nursery/school during winter. There I live both things would be illegal with motorcycle.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#142

Post by ifwinterco »

kibwen wrote: post #79
ohples wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one reason I wish belt drives where more common.

It's not hard to find e-bikes with belt drives. Honestly, I think they'll take over the e-bikes market within 10 years or so (I think there are still some outstanding patents?). More expensive and slightly less efficient than a chain, but both of those are probably negligible for the context of e-bikes, and in exchange you never get grease on your pant leg, you never need to lube anything, you never need to worry abo…

Motorbikes still overwhelmingly use chains, not sure why but there must be a good reason

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#143

Post by wyre »

nradov wrote: post #138
dghlsakjg wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An internal transmission hub replaces a hub, cassette, and derailleur and starts at less than $100 for the whole kit. A derailleur can cost $10, but it won’t be nearly as durable. Buying a high quality one is gonna cost in the same neighborhood as $100.

A derailleur makes it a lot easier to maintain correct chain tension. Fixing a rear flat by the side of the road is more of a hassle with an internal transmission hub (or a fixie).

I’d argue fixing a flat on a IGH or fixed gear/single speed is easier than a geared bike. Hardest thing about a single speed is needing the proper tool to remove the axle nuts, but after that take the chain off the cog and the wheel will slip right out, just as easy to put back in, just reverse the process. Getting chain tension can be tricky, but tighten the drive side bolt first at the point the chainline has about a centimeter of mesial play and once you tighten the other bolt the chain line should be spot on.

Where a geared bike with a derailleur will need you to put the bike in the smallest gear, and untangle the chain from the cassette. Replacing the wheel back in requires the chain to be properly laced around the cassette and can require dexterity.

Unfortunately derailleurs are necessary to ensure chain tension when the bicycle frame isn’t designed the allow for manual chain tensioning (vertical dropouts).

Also, run tubeless and flats will feel like a thing of the past.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#144

Post by petre »

andrewshadura wrote: post #15
jajko wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come? Article doesn't seem to mention that. That Cube bike for 5k ain't British producer, manufacturer is german.

Cube is not a very popular brand of ebikes in the Netherlands as far as I'm aware. Definitely not for city bicycles. Gazelle, Batavus, Cortina, Vogue, Azor, but Cube? Not so much.

They do have a lot of nice trekking models with upright geometry, full mudguards, rack and lights that can be used as a city bike though. Just not so many models with step through frames, aka "Dutch" bicycles.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#145

Post by wyre »

brikym wrote: post #118
ohples wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one reason I wish belt drives where more common.

But the Shimano/Sram cartel really want to keep the chain/derailleur cash cow alive.

The cycling industry and trends are based on processional racing and a chain/derailleur is going to maintain significantly more power transfer at that level than a belt drive or internally geared hub.

If Shimano/Sram cared about building top-shelf commuter drivetrains (Shimano has Alfine) they could easily purchase Gates or build a competing company.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#146

Post by donjoe »

tacticalturtle wrote: post #89
lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

Bikes are all about efficiency since you don't use any energy but your own. Things change a bit nowadays with e-bikes.

When it comes to efficiency, internal gear hubs sadly aren't yet in the range of a rear derailleur.

https://fahrradzukunft.de/17/wirkungsgradmessungen-an-nabens...

A dirty rear derailleur of course also reduces the drive train's efficiency by a lot - which can be solved by cleaning the chain every other month.

When moving towards belt drives, you need a very stiff frame which can be opened/split in the back to fit the belt. These frames are more expensive to produce which will furthermore increase the overall bike's price.

Ideally, we all train our legs to be able to handle a single speed setup ;-)

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#147

Post by pineaux »

donjoe wrote: post #146
tacticalturtle wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

Bikes are all about efficiency since you don't use any energy but your own. Things change a bit nowadays with e-bikes. When it comes to efficiency, internal gear hubs sadly aren't yet in the range of a rear derailleur. https://fahrradzukunft.de/17/wirkungsgradmessungen-an-nabens... A dirty rear derailleur of course also reduces the drive train's efficiency by a lot - which can be solved by cleaning the chain every ot…

You don't NEED an opened/split frame for a belt. There are so many ways to solve this problem.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#148

Post by lostlogin »

wyre wrote: post #143
nradov wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A derailleur makes it a lot easier to maintain correct chain tension. Fixing a rear flat by the side of the road is more of a hassle with an internal transmission hub (or a fixie).

I’d argue fixing a flat on a IGH or fixed gear/single speed is easier than a geared bike. Hardest thing about a single speed is needing the proper tool to remove the axle nuts, but after that take the chain off the cog and the wheel will slip right out, just as easy to put back in, just reverse the process. Getting chain tension can be tricky, but tighten the drive side bolt first at the point the chainline has about…

Tubeless is a right pain when the hole is large or otherwise unplugged by the sealant.

The geyser of glue makes a hell of a mess too. I went back to inner tubes.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#149

Post by pineaux »

13of40 wrote: post #116
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of true, but it isn't the right comparison. The gear hub isn't just a replacement for the derailleur, but also all your gears, and has a simpler axle. The IGH is still a bit more expensive (~$200 vs $80 for a not completely bottom of the line derailleur based system), but it also requires a lot less maintenance to keep working well.

Getting rid of the external gears also allows you to use a fixed chain guard. Less pants with a hole chewed in one leg = profit.

You can even use a completely enclosed chain guard. You see them quite often in the Netherlands and will keep your chain out of the rain and dust, this lowers maintenance cost and lifetime significantly.

The only problem is, is that this kind of guard typically is quite susceptible to damage if the bike falls or when you hit something.

Otherwise it is in many ways superior to a belt. Belts are inherently inefficient compared to chains.

Post reply on HN