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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#131

Post by Aurornis »

tacticalturtle wrote: post #89
lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

> But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur.

The cost difference alone is extreme enough to explain why you don’t see internal gear hub bikes everywhere. Even if you did have them on the showroom floor, those casual bike riders wouldn’t be buying them much due to the price.

You’re also underestimating the reliability of a modern derailleur system. As long as you’re not buying the absolute cheapest, no-name system, they’re actually quite reliable. The technology has come a long way.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#132

Post by tomek_ycomb »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #129
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of range in internally-geared hubs though, from the crazy end with the $1500 Rohloff 14sp to the $80 Sturmey-Archer 3sp. I commute on a Shimano Alfine 11sp that's ~$200 which isn't exactly "a tenner" but if you add up the price of a derailleur, cassette, chainrings, etc. I don't think it's much different?

One of the really weird things with bikes is that entry level bikes tend to be 3x7 which means that you have a lot of extra weight and complexity (a second shifter, shift cable, and front gears) for pretty much no benefit over a 1x9 system.

It's much easier to manage tension on 3x7 over 1x9

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#133

Post by Aurornis »

brikym wrote: post #118
ohples wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one reason I wish belt drives where more common.

But the Shimano/Sram cartel really want to keep the chain/derailleur cash cow alive.

Belt drive is a fixed ratio system. It’s not comparable to a derailleur which has a wide range of gear ratios.

Apples and oranges. One doesn’t swap for the other. It’s not an industry conspiracy.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#134

Post by Aurornis »

jameshart wrote: post #117
lm411 wrote: post #106

Anecdotally, my wife's Magnum Premium 2 has held up well for 4 years of all weather use in west coast Canada. This includes pulling a cargo trailer or kids trailer year round - salty and sandy slushy snow, pouring rain, sun... For two of the years she hauled him to school everyday, in all weather, and did all of her shopping and errands with the bike. About 100km every weekday. I'll have to look at the odometer somet…

Not casting doubt on your numbers here, but to put some perspective on how much usage that implies: 100km every weekday means literally hours of use every day - we're talking about an e-bike that must average what, 20-25km/h at most? That's assuming you're not in stop-start urban traffic. So four or five hours a day? I guess if you're doing a school run that's 30 mins there and 30 mins back, morning and afternoon, pl…

> 100km every weekday means literally hours of use every day

And multiple batteries per day.

I suppose it’s possible if someone’s entire day revolved around e-biking everywhere most of the day and they live in an area that’s relatively flat and there’s not a lot of stop and go and the trips fit into the charge of a single battery and so on.

I like biking a lot, but spending hours and hours on an ebike doing errands every day and hoping nothing breaks when you’re far from home is not my idea of a good time.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#135

Post by _whiteCaps_ »

analog31 wrote: post #75
tchvil wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one is cheap and light and works great on various bikes but on a 29er: https://a.aliexpress.com/_Eu2mwYj

Link is broken, but my curiosity is piqued.

Link worked for me, the item description is "Rrskit Bicycle Fender Ultra Light Foldable Bicycle Mudguard"

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#136

Post by analog31 »

tacticalturtle wrote: post #89
lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

I've got a couple of 1960s Sturmey-Archer AW hubs (on modern rims) in the family fleet, and I like them a lot. They're virtually maintenance free. One was run completely dry and filled with powdery rust when I got it. After cleaning and lubrication, it's given me thousands of trouble-free miles.

I consider 3 speeds to be the sweet spot for capturing the advantages of an IGH without an exponential increase in cost. In technical terms, a 3x only needs a single planetary unit, and shifting is simplistic.

But it's going to be a tough sell in the US. Derailleur systems have actually improved a lot since I've been riding bikes (50+ years). Indexed shifting really works. Even low-end Shimano systems last a long time with minimal maintenance. There are maybe a dozen bikes among my family members, and derailleur problems are quite rare.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#137

Post by nwatson »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #104
Etheryte wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.

There's a lot of range in internally-geared hubs though, from the crazy end with the $1500 Rohloff 14sp to the $80 Sturmey-Archer 3sp. I commute on a Shimano Alfine 11sp that's ~$200 which isn't exactly "a tenner" but if you add up the price of a derailleur, cassette, chainrings, etc. I don't think it's much different?

A bottom bracket mounted Pinion C.12 transmission runs 12 gears (grip shift) and over 600% ratio from gear 1 to gear 12. I bought a reasonably priced Priority 600x mountain bike (now replaced by two newer models) with this system. No derailleur, no chain, no lube. Two cogs/sprockets, one at the pedals, one on the back wheel. A carbon fiber belt drive. Not an e-bike. Easy to maintain. The extra cost is worth it avoiding the hassle.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#138

Post by nradov »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #105
Etheryte wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.

An internal transmission hub replaces a hub, cassette, and derailleur and starts at less than $100 for the whole kit. A derailleur can cost $10, but it won’t be nearly as durable. Buying a high quality one is gonna cost in the same neighborhood as $100.

A derailleur makes it a lot easier to maintain correct chain tension. Fixing a rear flat by the side of the road is more of a hassle with an internal transmission hub (or a fixie).

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#139

Post by elbasti »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #130
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #29

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

Serious answer: they are lighter, quieter, go slower, handle differently, and have access to different infrastructure.

The lighter and slower bit may sound glib, but it makes a huge difference to what it feels like to ride them and to have them ridden around you.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#140

Post by petre »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #130
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #29

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

Serious question, why would a person spend that kind of money on an ebike? An entry-level motorcycle is less than half that. What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't? One example among many: https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/cruiser/rebel-500

> What benefit does the bike get you that a motorcycle doesn't?

Exercise and silence.

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