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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#101

Post by mperham »

serf wrote: post #11

it's not surprising to me that the bosch mid-drives are failing, they're typically placed at an angle that catches all the run off from every tube at the lowest point on the bike (except on recumbents), and the controller is (usually) integrated. mid-drives are great, the gear advantage rocks; the bosch units suck but unfortunately they had so much industry sway that a lot of ebike frames are coming out built around…

Specialized had problems with their last gen of the Brose motor (2.1?), leading to lots of premature failure. I’d not heard of significant problems with Bosch units, it’s always hard to determine what is truly a design flaw vs a few anecdotes.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#102

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

Etheryte wrote: post #95
tacticalturtle wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.

That's kind of true, but it isn't the right comparison. The gear hub isn't just a replacement for the derailleur, but also all your gears, and has a simpler axle. The IGH is still a bit more expensive (~$200 vs $80 for a not completely bottom of the line derailleur based system), but it also requires a lot less maintenance to keep working well.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#103

Post by heresie-dabord »

tacticalturtle wrote: post #89
lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

If in a dry climate, a derailleur transmission can last a long time and will be cheap to maintain. But once a person starts replacing quality components with like quality, especially in a wet climate, a derailleur transmission can be expensive over 10 years.

The set of my experience is { Shimano: [ $various_derailleurs, Nexus 3, Nexus 7, Alfine 11 ] , Rohloff: [14 speed], Other: [rear-hub e-bike] }

$various_derailleurs -- fussy to maintain, cheap to replace but costly over 10 years

Nexus 3 -- rubbish

Nexus 7 -- not bad for modest bicycling

Alfine 11 -- zero maintenance, excellent performance, cheaper over 10 years than $various_derailleurs

Rohloff -- low maintenance, expensive, built to last, and 14 speeds! But heavy and 10% efficiency loss.

e-bike -- reliable, fast and fun, but zero exercise and in the range of a Rohloff for cost

In short, I think an e-bike in 2024 is brilliant for single-mode commuting. The technology is reliable and performant... but heavy.

An Alfine 11 or Rohloff is bliss for multi-modal commuting (assuming 16" or 20" wheels).

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#104

Post by blacksmith_tb »

Etheryte wrote: post #95
tacticalturtle wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.

There's a lot of range in internally-geared hubs though, from the crazy end with the $1500 Rohloff 14sp to the $80 Sturmey-Archer 3sp. I commute on a Shimano Alfine 11sp that's ~$200 which isn't exactly "a tenner" but if you add up the price of a derailleur, cassette, chainrings, etc. I don't think it's much different?

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#105

Post by dghlsakjg »

Etheryte wrote: post #95
tacticalturtle wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year. But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur. So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleur…

You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.

An internal transmission hub replaces a hub, cassette, and derailleur and starts at less than $100 for the whole kit.

A derailleur can cost $10, but it won’t be nearly as durable. Buying a high quality one is gonna cost in the same neighborhood as $100.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#106

Post by lm411 »

Anecdotally, my wife's Magnum Premium 2 has held up well for 4 years of all weather use in west coast Canada. This includes pulling a cargo trailer or kids trailer year round - salty and sandy slushy snow, pouring rain, sun...

For two of the years she hauled him to school everyday, in all weather, and did all of her shopping and errands with the bike. About 100km every weekday. I'll have to look at the odometer sometime and see what it's at.

I believe it has a Bafang motor and I think we paid about C$2200 as it was in clearance.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#107

Post by blacksmith_tb »

lostlogin wrote: post #57
andrewshadura wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use mudguards, chain guard and coat guards.

Any recommendations? I had guards and found they rattled, slowed me and were less effective than what I wanted.

SKS (also known as ESGE or Blumels) "chromoplast" full fenders have always worked well for me. There are fancier (sometimes metal) fenders, but they tend to rattle, like you say.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#108

Post by dghlsakjg »

Loughla wrote: post #66
ohples wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one reason I wish belt drives where more common.

I feel like oil and those sorts of things would be even worse on a belt?

My belt drive bike is dry, no lube at all. They advise you to wash it off with a hose if it gets dirty.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#110

Post by DANmode »

discreteevent wrote: post #26
lostlogin wrote: post #16

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

Do you have full mudguards/fenders?

To this point, and especially for certain classes of bikes (fat tire ebikes, for example),

not selling it full-fendered is just an insult to your customer.

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