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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

81–90 of 329 posts

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#81
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch benefit from nice flat terrain, so less need for power assistance.

But they have higher average wind speeds, and headwinds can slow you down as much as hills.

According to ChatGPT it's not that different:

> Comparison:

> United Kingdom: Average wind speeds range from 13 to 19 km/h (8 to 12 mph). > Netherlands: Average wind speeds range from 15 to 20 km/h (9 to 12 mph).

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#82
post #73

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

I think it really pays to go with an e-bike from an actual bicycle company. The Trek TQ system for example is submersible (IP67) and has a 2-year warranty, same as Bosch.

Is IP67 safe to wash like a car? Soapy sponge and reasonable hose pressure (not pressure washer) spray?

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#83

If it's a Chinese e-bike, it's probably lying about being IPX67. OTOH, Riese & Müller $15k USD e-bikes aren't IPX anything because the Bosch components aren't. If you get it wet, just kiss that money goodbye. Absolutely bonkers.

Huh, that’s not my experience. My wife rides to work on her R&M e-bike, every working day, all year round, in sun, rain or snow. Daily distance is about 40km (25 miles), two hours back and forth. Not a single major problem caused by water in more than 5 years.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#84
post #79
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one reason I wish belt drives where more common.

It's not hard to find e-bikes with belt drives. Honestly, I think they'll take over the e-bikes market within 10 years or so (I think there are still some outstanding patents?). More expensive and slightly less efficient than a chain, but both of those are probably negligible for the context of e-bikes, and in exchange you never get grease on your pant leg, you never need to lube anything, you never need to worry abo…

Probably the most interesting, cost-effective one I know of: https://lectricebikes.com/products/lectric-one-ebike

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#85
post #82
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it really pays to go with an e-bike from an actual bicycle company. The Trek TQ system for example is submersible (IP67) and has a 2-year warranty, same as Bosch.

Is IP67 safe to wash like a car? Soapy sponge and reasonable hose pressure (not pressure washer) spray?

IP67 means "completely dust proof and submersible up to 1 meter". You can safely hose it down to clean it, pressure washers are probably a bit much.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#86
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the same bikes magically not fail and have cheaper replacement motors in the fabled Dutch paradise?

As someone living in London and travelling to The Netherlands on a regular basis (intending to migrate), I have to say, pretty much everything from public transport to supermarket design seems of a much, much higher standard than its British equivalent. Further to that, it generally feels as though the UK is a country massively in decline and this transcends down to the quality of goods which we pass as acceptable. T…

What does that have to do with German-developed and Hungarian-made electric motors breaking down in the UK?

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#87
post #70
post #11

it's not surprising to me that the bosch mid-drives are failing, they're typically placed at an angle that catches all the run off from every tube at the lowest point on the bike (except on recumbents), and the controller is (usually) integrated. mid-drives are great, the gear advantage rocks; the bosch units suck but unfortunately they had so much industry sway that a lot of ebike frames are coming out built around…

I just dropped a bunch of money on a Bosch based bike because I was told they are very reliable. I'm going to be very annoyed if that turns out to not be the case....

Bosch is in a bunch of high end eMTB setups, including a few of my friends’ rides. We do plenty of wet riding, and the bikes have been hit with the hose for years now to clean them off when we’re done.

If there’s a problem here I think it must be the frame design or the way they’re installed and not an across the board problem with Bosch components.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does matter since different brands may offer different levels of weather protection. Typically only Dutch bicycle makers care about things like proper mudguards and chain guards, for example. And some, like Azor go crazy and test their parts in a rust chamber. And, for example, the Cube bicycle as depicted in the article, is clearly not designed to be used in rainy weather. Who knows what else shortcuts they took?

> Typically only Dutch bicycle makers care about things like proper mudguards and chain guards, for example. That is not true. It is about class of bikes, not brands. Sure there are brands such as Gazelle who focus pretty much on those characteristics only but there are other brands doing the same all over the world alongside more racy models. > And, for example, the Cube bicycle as depicted in the article, is clearl…

Not sure what you mean, I think it is more about buyer culture than what class of bicycle it is. So saying "Dutch" might be a good short cut.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#89

I’ve been doing a bit of (non e-bike) riding in poor weather of late, and it’s really surprising just how wet and dirty everything gets. After a wet road ride, every surface is covered in black, greasy dirt. It rots fabric, makes grinding paste in mechanical parts and generally makes everything worse. You need really good seals to keep that crap out.

I never see them in the US outside of city bike share programs, but I feel like most casual bike users would be better served by internal gear hubs and similar closed systems. The maintenance is minimal, outside of dropping some oil in every year.

But for some reason, every bike in a bike shop, including the most casual upright bike, has a finicky derailleur.

So instead we’re doomed to a life of misaligned derailleurs and bent derailleur hangers.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#90
post #11

it's not surprising to me that the bosch mid-drives are failing, they're typically placed at an angle that catches all the run off from every tube at the lowest point on the bike (except on recumbents), and the controller is (usually) integrated. mid-drives are great, the gear advantage rocks; the bosch units suck but unfortunately they had so much industry sway that a lot of ebike frames are coming out built around…

I can't see how mid-drives are significantly superior. An electric motor doesn't need any gear advantage and sending more force to the rear wheel seems like it's actually a disadvantage since it put more stress on bicycle components that are often designed for just human levels of force.

As far as I can tell, the mid-drives became dominant just 'cause people wanted to have something the looked more "seamless".

I have rear drive ebike (Avanton Pace 300 v1) and I'm very happy with it (it was also cheap as a show room model). It's responsive and I can pedal up any hill to about a 25% grade. The controller is still mid-frame and the battery inset into the down tube. Thinking about it, my ideal ebike would be a heavy duty frame with all the components just bolting on (plus could use power tool batteries).

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