Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests • Hacker News Board

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#81

Post by stretchwithme » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:05 PM UTC

pitt1980 wrote: post #71

larrys wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Before I get downvoted into oblivion" Why is it always necessarily to add this? It's like "I apologize in advance but I'm going to insult you". As an aside I was wondering this morning if people who down vote read an entire comment or downvote on the first negative thing they don't like, disagree with etc. If that is the case you would think that putting your last sentence (sans the bigdio) would suffice as a prophy…

people say this because outside the mainstream thoughts do get downvoted alot on this board. which is maybe better than letting trolls take over, I'm kind of agnostic about it but alternative viewpoints are often dismissed here (only example I can readily think of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3460572 , but I feel like I see it all the time)

Hundreds of people may read and agree or disagree. And usually the number of down votes is very small by comparison.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#82

Post by timwiseman » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:05 PM UTC

jellicle wrote: post #19

Sigh. You need both. The reality is that there's a lot of book-learning in the world. You're never going to build a rocket to the moon by starting in your backyard with some sheet metal - your lifespan isn't long enough if you take that approach. You have to read books written by people who have gone before, and learn from their mistakes, which you can do at a far more rapid pace than you can by making all those mist…

You are entirely right.

With that said, schools right now often emphasize testing and test prep at the expense of any hands on work. Naturally, we should have the right balance, which seems to be what you are proposing, but if we must overreact, I would much rather overemphasize building, exploring, creating and underemphasize testing than the other way around.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#83

Post by ThomPete » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:06 PM UTC

jellicle wrote: post #19

Sigh. You need both. The reality is that there's a lot of book-learning in the world. You're never going to build a rocket to the moon by starting in your backyard with some sheet metal - your lifespan isn't long enough if you take that approach. You have to read books written by people who have gone before, and learn from their mistakes, which you can do at a far more rapid pace than you can by making all those mist…

Most people aren't going to build rockets to the moon in their backyard and those who want to can.

http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/

With regards to reading a passage and comprehend it. That is obvious but completely missing the point.

We don't have a shortage of people with critical skills we have a shortage of people who's knowledge isn't only abstracted from the phenomena they are reading about but a combination.

Testing and experimenting should always run before abstraction and critical thinking exactly because abstraction is based on premises made by experimenting and testing.

Academic discipline is way overrated and the best scientists aren't those who only deal in abstraction (with a few exceptions) but rather those who more more like engineers.

We didn't bring people to the moon by reading about it. Someone had to make those experiments. But it is more and more a lost art and that is sad.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#84

Post by lukeschlather » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:10 PM UTC

gavinlynch wrote: post #76

kbolino wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are unwittingly peddling an insidious idea that may be just as bad, if not worse, than standardized testing. A "highly qualified education professional" is a disinterested drone whose only accomplishments were meeting the arcane state requirements for a teaching certificate. If you're really lucky, they might have been adept at stringing together a bunch of useless "research" conclusions into incoherent p…

I agree with you on the academia aspect, and it sounds like you are referring mostly to higher education, right? Or else, why would we want those from academia teaching our children in middle school and high school. "intelligence, patience, curiosity, and creativity" Are those really the qualities of a good teacher? In my mind, I don't really care of the teacher is curious or intelligent. I just want them to know how…

Knowledge is not some quantity that teachers mechanically shovel onto students in an efficient manner. Teachers must be curious and intelligent, so that they serve as a role model for their students (who also must be curious and intelligent to learn.) An uninquisitive teacher encourages uninquisitive students.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#85

Post by CognitiveLens » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:13 PM UTC

shasta wrote: post #78

CognitiveLens wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a reading comprehension question. Read the text provided: "To avoid crushing the glass slide when focusing, begin with the lens close to the specimen" The microscope lens should initially be placed close to the glass slide: C. To avoid breaking the glass slide when adjusting the focus.

So wait, you're saying the reason for the lens to begin close to the glass is the same reason the lens should begin close to the specimen? How did you come to that conclusion?

Context clues from the "How to" section steps 2-6.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#86

Post by mmaunder » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:13 PM UTC

Not sure that the article conveys the message well, but I agree vehemently with the sentiment of the article's sub-heading (the title of the HN post). Standardized tests do a great job of ensuring we end up with standardized kids that will safely perpetuate the status quo.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#87

Post by larrys » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:16 PM UTC

pitt1980 wrote: post #71

larrys wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Before I get downvoted into oblivion" Why is it always necessarily to add this? It's like "I apologize in advance but I'm going to insult you". As an aside I was wondering this morning if people who down vote read an entire comment or downvote on the first negative thing they don't like, disagree with etc. If that is the case you would think that putting your last sentence (sans the bigdio) would suffice as a prophy…

people say this because outside the mainstream thoughts do get downvoted alot on this board. which is maybe better than letting trolls take over, I'm kind of agnostic about it but alternative viewpoints are often dismissed here (only example I can readily think of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3460572 , but I feel like I see it all the time)

I guess I phrased the question incorrectly as I know the reason is is to avoid downvotes and the person is aware of what they are saying will get downvoted.

My feeling is that by saying "sorry if this is insulting" or "I apologize in advance" or "before you downvote me" you are rolling over on your belly and appearing vulnerable by acknowledging your vulnerability and trying to show some humility. And in a sense you are setting up the contrast principle because the belly in comparison to the crime just doesn't seem so bad.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#88

Post by wntdaliv » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:18 PM UTC

bluekeybox wrote: post #57

waterlesscloud wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty much why you have to have standardized tests. Subpar teachers like this one. You couldn't possibly trust someone like that to make any sort of valid evaluation of her students.

I think you actually have a good point there.

Yes and no. Obviously his teacher was in the wrong for yelling and screaming at him over such a trivial matter. However, in California at least, testing standards (as dictated by the state) are incredibly strict. More than one good teacher has been fired for not following the written procedures EXACTLY. Any reported deviation (state inspectors interview students and staff at random) is grounds for punishment and possible dismissal. It's a complete disaster, but this is what the teachers have to deal with. It can be incredibly stressful.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#89

Post by pitt1980 » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:18 PM UTC

stretchwithme wrote: post #81

pitt1980 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people say this because outside the mainstream thoughts do get downvoted alot on this board. which is maybe better than letting trolls take over, I'm kind of agnostic about it but alternative viewpoints are often dismissed here (only example I can readily think of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3460572 , but I feel like I see it all the time)

Hundreds of people may read and agree or disagree. And usually the number of down votes is very small by comparison.

I'm sure that's the case

putting a sentence about how your comment may be downvoted, is just a request not to have that small number reflexsively downvote, because sometimes that happens

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#90

Post by k-mcgrady » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 4:22 PM UTC

What is with the deluge of articles telling people what they should do? If people want to build rockets, robots, or learn to code they can. They should be doing what excites them and interests them whether thats science, writing, music, or coding.