Why does it say "fatal crash" both driver and police officer survived?
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Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
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Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#32Why does it say "fatal crash" both driver and police officer survived?
Because the news story covered two crashes, and it's describing the one that was fatal.
Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hope there are also repercussion for whoever named this tech "full self driving"
In the future we will have the Samsung effect on naming this technology, because once they went to high definition, they had to upgrade to ultra high, then mega. Extra full self driving?
General self driving. Super self driving.
Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#34It boggles my mind that any self driving system would knowingly drive into any object, no matter what it is, as large as a police car. I'd be willing to bet that Elon's insistence on only using cameras is combining with the flashing lights to effectively make objects that appear in some frames of video, and not in others, as the camera recovers from the flash... and this makes it appear as noise, and below a certain…
I mean, it's to be expected. Most driving infrastructure is designed for human eyes and brains, including flashing lights on police cars. If you redesign the driving system from scratch to work on silicon and not brain, you pretty much expect its failures to not look like the kind of failures we're used to. Even if it's objectively better, with a lower accident rate, lower fatality rate and so on, it will occasionall…
> redesign the driving system from scratch to work on silicon
Nobody proposed this. My Subaru can lane keep even in whiteout conditions (if there is a car in front of me) due to radar. I can’t do that. Tesla’s can’t do that.
> it will occasionally do something as stupid looking as "drive into a police car with flashing lights on"
Two sensors operating on different wavelengths can add more information than a single doubling of the first sensor.
Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#35Self drive mode is fundamentally unsafe. This bullshit where companies are allowed to say “the driver must always be in control”, is just that. Either it is self driving, or it is not. You cannnot make a product that is physiologically impossible to use, and then say that fault lies with anything other than the product. This is before you get to it being labeled and advertised explicitly as literally “full self drivi…
To clarify on the physiologically impossible bit:
1. The NTSB and FAA both found repeatedly, as have pretty much every other study - academic or otherwise - that people _cannot_ focus on watching a task without actually being involved in or doing the task. Any "self driving" model that requires the non-operator to be engaged in driving is simply not humanly possible. So the only reason for that stated rule is the manufacturers know these systems are unsafe, but nonetheless want to make themselves not be liable for their faulty products.
2. The only other "vehicle completely controls itself" system in practice is aircraft flight, where the pilots are necessarily engaged in all critical times, and for the remainder of the time all the systems either give sufficient warning before anything goes wrong (e.g. when autopilot disengages on an aircraft you have a substantial amount of time before impact - not the extremely heavily trained signals for which there is only a single action and no immediate requirement to regain situational awareness (stall, acas, tcas, etc). The time these "self driving" systems provide to regain situational awareness and then take appropriate action is less than what we expect of trained pilots, yet it's somehow acceptable for random drivers.
The current self driving "you are expected to be in charge of the vehicle at all times" is entirely liability shifting: manufacturers are knowingly selling unsafe products, especially Tesla, they are lying about the capabilities of those products, and then they are saying it is the drivers fault when they fail.
What manufacturers are doing is no different from a manufacturer selling a car with an ABS system that fails, and saying "the driver is responsible for identifying ABS has failed and pumping the brakes if it does, if they fail to do so we do not accept liability for the ABS failing"
Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#36Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#37It boggles my mind that any self driving system would knowingly drive into any object, no matter what it is, as large as a police car. I'd be willing to bet that Elon's insistence on only using cameras is combining with the flashing lights to effectively make objects that appear in some frames of video, and not in others, as the camera recovers from the flash... and this makes it appear as noise, and below a certain…
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Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thought and discussion terminating meme twitter phrases like that bring the discourse level a lot lower on here. There was much discussion in the relevant thread about the pay issue. You’re a new account of 67 days, perhaps learn the culture here before spouting twitter / Reddit type culture war shit?
Looking at someone’s profile to find something irrelevant to discredit them, like you are doing with the age of my account, is the real Reddit behavior. It really has no logical bearing on the point I am making. As for the point I’m making: minor incidents that are not newsworthy get upvoted as long as they are unfavorable to Elon Musk. On the other hand, one of the most significant pieces of financial news this year…
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Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#39[dead]
Re: Tesla in self-drive mode slams into police car in Orange County
#40It boggles my mind that any self driving system would knowingly drive into any object, no matter what it is, as large as a police car. I'd be willing to bet that Elon's insistence on only using cameras is combining with the flashing lights to effectively make objects that appear in some frames of video, and not in others, as the camera recovers from the flash... and this makes it appear as noise, and below a certain…
AFAIK the latest betas have switched to a cutting edge “transformer” model (or models?). I wonder if it’s prone to hallucinations like its LLM cousins. On a different note, I like how Mercedes changes the color of external lights when in self-driving mode to make others aware. A bit like outsourcing the responsibility externally - but maybe this is the way forward until the tech is reliable/better than people.
I like the Mercedes idea, but haven't seen it in practice yet.
It would be useful to have a universal outside light that informs drivers behind you that the reason you're keeping a safe distance ahead is that the car is on adaptive cruise control. Some people feel like 2 seconds distance is a reason to try crazy stunts to get around you. And then once the road is clear drive slower in front of you than the speed you had set...