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Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

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Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#31
post #7
post #4

I remember taking a standardized test in public elementary school in the US (I think this was the Iowa series). At the end of one section I finished early, I counted the number of questions and was planning on finding out some basic stats on the questions. We hear "pencils down", and so the break period comes around. I comply, and the teacher collects our tests. I then picked up my pencil again and started doing a bu…

Reminds me of my primary school's request to my parents that they stop me from having access to books at home as it was making me difficult to teach.

We had a book reading contest my fourth grade year, to read as many books as possible during the year.

At one point, after I'd read some multiple of whatever the class average was, my teacher told me to stop reading so many books. Still, all these years later, I have very negative feelings about that.

There's a lot of subpar teachers out there. In every district.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#32
post #7
post #4

I remember taking a standardized test in public elementary school in the US (I think this was the Iowa series). At the end of one section I finished early, I counted the number of questions and was planning on finding out some basic stats on the questions. We hear "pencils down", and so the break period comes around. I comply, and the teacher collects our tests. I then picked up my pencil again and started doing a bu…

Reminds me of my primary school's request to my parents that they stop me from having access to books at home as it was making me difficult to teach.

If those teachers had any sense of professional responsibility they'd resign en-masse, or at least drum out whoever's idea this was. Unbeliveable.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#33
post #4

I remember taking a standardized test in public elementary school in the US (I think this was the Iowa series). At the end of one section I finished early, I counted the number of questions and was planning on finding out some basic stats on the questions. We hear "pencils down", and so the break period comes around. I comply, and the teacher collects our tests. I then picked up my pencil again and started doing a bu…

This is pretty much why you have to have standardized tests. Subpar teachers like this one. You couldn't possibly trust someone like that to make any sort of valid evaluation of her students.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#35

Sigh. You need both. The reality is that there's a lot of book-learning in the world. You're never going to build a rocket to the moon by starting in your backyard with some sheet metal - your lifespan isn't long enough if you take that approach. You have to read books written by people who have gone before, and learn from their mistakes, which you can do at a far more rapid pace than you can by making all those mist…

The writer's complaint is daft. The purpose is to test if you can read a passage and comprehend it. Has nothing to do with microscopes.

From my understanding of cognitive science, the question asked is deeply flawed if you want to test comprehension without testing knowledge of microscopes.

One approach to answering questions like this is to build a little model in your head of what is being described. You then answer questions about the model in your head. Experience with microscopes or similar devices is incredibly valuable to building such a model in your head and answering questions about it. This was one of the “big problems” in first generation AI: to answer questions, a computer must be able to construct models, and to construct models, a computer needs a huge amount of real-world experience.

What I’m saying is that answering this question well requires experience with microscopes or similar devices. Being able to answer the question without prior knowledge of what a microscope is, or how light behaves, or lenses period, or refracting telescopes, and so forth, is ridiculously hard.

Now, there may be a good reason why an entire test full of a variety of such questions is effective for accomplishing whatever the school board wants accomplished—getting funding, I imagine—but I stop well short of saying the author’s complaint is “daft.” I think there are good reasons to be curious about the biases inherent in this question, and about where schools end up if they build their entire approach to teaching around scoring well on questions like this.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#36
I'm amazed at the short-sightedness apparent in this article and in some of the comments here. Yes, the American public education system is broken and is to a large extent too focused on poorly-constructed standardized testing, but imagining that 1) the system used to be better for students, 2) the resources exist for universal project-based learning/assessment, and 3) project-based learning/assessment would fix many/most of the problems ignores the reality of the education system as a whole.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

From the article, the question provided is about technical reading comprehension; it has nothing to do with learning how to use a microscope. The text states, "To avoid crushing the glass slide when focusing, begin with the lens close to the specimen...". The question is NOT testing your knowledge of how to use a microscope, it's testing whether you can read an instruction manual, which is actually an important skill that can be difficult to assess through project-based learning. Standardized tests try to package the assessment of a wide range of fundamental skills into a relatively contained, standardized format so that skills are evaluated relative to some clear standard as opposed to each individual teacher's ability to identify the strengths and weaknesses of each of their students. Secondly, the article states that "Schools seem to have forgotten that students learn best when they are engaged; in fact, the biggest problem in schools is boredom." Tell me about a time when the biggest problem in schools was not boredom (or worse). This statement attempts to recall a mythical golden age of education excellence that can be recaptured if only schools could "remember". This is not a memory problem. Public education has become a much more complex beast over the past few decades, and the system is struggling to adapt, not remember how to teach.

There are over a million high school teachers in the US. How many of them could competently replace their core curriculum with project-based learning? What about the ones with 40 students in a classroom? What if half of those students don't have basic English language skills? What if 2-3 of those students have behavior problems and regularly destroy the projects of others?

This is just a tiny sample of the challenges that educators and education researchers are trying to address, and the "make robots" solution only addresses a few problems with the current system while introducing many others. Importantly, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of such initiatives across the country to introduce more hands-on learning. Education research is not only identifying the most effective interactive, project-based teaching methods, but actually working with schools to implement them effectively. This is a long-term, resource-intensive, ongoing development in education, and it will take awhile to get it right. Trust me, the benefits of project-based learning identified by this article are old news in a lot of progressive education research, but the actual implementation is a far more complex problem, and one that requires understanding the useful role of standardized testing as well as its disadvantages.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#37

Sigh. You need both. The reality is that there's a lot of book-learning in the world. You're never going to build a rocket to the moon by starting in your backyard with some sheet metal - your lifespan isn't long enough if you take that approach. You have to read books written by people who have gone before, and learn from their mistakes, which you can do at a far more rapid pace than you can by making all those mist…

I think that test item is a good example of the role that testing is playing in the US education system today. The real problem is that, for many students, this test item is the closest they will ever come to using a microscope.

We should be focusing on getting more students in front of a microscope, in classes where they learn effectively from texts as you describe. Instead, we are so caught up in testing that many people lose sight of this goal.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#38

Sigh. You need both. The reality is that there's a lot of book-learning in the world. You're never going to build a rocket to the moon by starting in your backyard with some sheet metal - your lifespan isn't long enough if you take that approach. You have to read books written by people who have gone before, and learn from their mistakes, which you can do at a far more rapid pace than you can by making all those mist…

The writer's complaint is daft. The purpose is to test if you can read a passage and comprehend it. Has nothing to do with microscopes. From my understanding of cognitive science, the question asked is deeply flawed if you want to test comprehension without testing knowledge of microscopes. One approach to answering questions like this is to build a little model in your head of what is being described. You then answe…

It is a reading comprehension question. Read the text provided: "To avoid crushing the glass slide when focusing, begin with the lens close to the specimen"

The microscope lens should initially be placed close to the glass slide: C. To avoid breaking the glass slide when adjusting the focus.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#39

'We walked into an empty room that once was the metal shop. It was perfect. I could imagine it having tools and materials and workbenches. I could imagine groups of curious kids being active, social, and mobile. ' When I was in 6th grade, they let us use a spot welder and press brake. I still have the box I made out of folded sheet metal from that time. We also had to make a little container out of folded sheet metal…

FIRST Robotics was an amazing experience. Our sponsoring university basically let us have free reign of their machine shop and made us do all the work ourselves, They just offered assistance if asked. Some of my favorite memories of school. Likewise, when we built 6 foot tall working trebuches in Calc... that was also a blast.

I hope my future kids have these kinds of opportunities in school.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#40
I agree to a point but I believe everything should be project base so people are given problems to solve in all subjects.

The reason for this is people get a better understanding of how to manage something properly and something that people can get stuck into rather than knowledge just being thrown at students without learning skills required to actually put the knowledge into action.

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