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Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

reuters.com

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Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#171

Post by ekidd »

brookst wrote: post #95
surfingdino wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TPM was met with resistance due to privacy concerns and Microsoft quietly re-introduced it anyway. The same will happen to Recall.

Has TPM been a net positive or negative for users / enterprises / the industry?

TPM protects against two main threat models:

1. You don't trust people with physical access to the computer. For the average home user, this means you consider the hardware owner a threat.

2. You want to protect against malware that has already taken complete control over the OS at runtime, and that wants to write itself to disk or the BIOS so that it survives a reboot. At this point, the attacker has already won, so... This might make sense on a stateless appliance like a Chromebook where you do factory wipes a lot.

So TPM mostly "protects" against the hardware owner, or against malware that already has 100% access to all user data, and just wants to stick around a bit longer.

Personally, I'd go with TPM being net negative, because the primary threat model it "protects" against is the actual hardware owner.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#172

Post by WhackyIdeas »

As I said nearly three weeks ago on HN:

“Even if they say that they’ll be abandoning this idea as they have ‘listened to user feedback’ or some other bull, the complete damage has already been done here. Thank the lord there are an abundance of excellent OS alternatives.”

Get them to fuck. Sorry, for the language.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#173

Post by maxglute »

vsuperpower2020 wrote: post #149
red_admiral wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, a long while ago, the Islamic Republic of Iran asked Cisco to develop a filtering solution to stop their citizens from accessing undesirable content. Cisco said no. Then US companies started asking for filters to stop their employees watching porn at work, Cisco invented a centralised domain/packet filtering solution for their routers, and Iran went "can we buy one of those, please?". My take is tha…

When would this be useful? Microsoft's best examples are that the user forgot the location of a chinese food place your friend told you once.

I think the best unspoken use cases is Recall is basically distributed backup of content. MS will get the idea in their head one day that they can pull dead info from peoples HDs. This is sus capability is MS decides to play info broker. This would be great if there's some system where people can access link rot / vanished content backed up from someone elses computer.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#174

Post by ryandrake »

layer8 wrote: post #121
7thpower wrote: post #80

This is not a must have feature for me, but I am interested to see how it unfolds and I can definitely see it being useful in the future. I do think they bungled the launch by not thinking through the security implications, and particularly how many sensitive threads this crosses. That being said, they took a risk, it did not go over well, and they’re adjusting. I am sure I will get flamed, but I appreciate the appro…

What’s damning is that they didn’t foresee the obvious reaction. It’s characteristic of the bubble that informs their product design decisions.

I would guess that many low-level workerbees in Microsoft foresaw the obvious reaction, but it's career-limiting to tell the emperor he has no clothes, when the emperor surrounds himself with sycophants who only tell him YES.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#175

Post by creata »

k8svet wrote: post #170
HaZeust wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ZorinOS is catching up FAST and QUICK with out-of-the-box gaming support, many thanks to Valve's bankroll into the problem with Proton (primarily) and Wine (secondarily) for the Steam Deck. I look forward to see where developments can go from here, but Zorin is pretty good for a solid amount of games... Maybe not most.

Give me a break. Its the kernel, drm, mesa, and proton. The distro haw scant all to do with it except a bunch of newbies loudly claiming "new distro" is the best because it includes one single extra package pre-installed or something. I will never stop being annoyed at conversations around distros. Ever.

I get what you're saying, and I don't know much about "ZorinOS", but the discussion is about people who might struggle to install Linux at all, so having the right packages preinstalled is important.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#176

Post by neltnerb »

adriancr wrote: post #127
simonw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very cynical take. I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. The personal utility benefits are very clear to me - the problem is the ease with which malicious attackers might steal the data (if they can breach the system).

> I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. In the future companies can have this enabled and just ask chatgpt to fire bottom 10% of staff. Or they can ask microsoft to 'train' their own company AI based on worker interactions then fire them once the AI can mimic the work good enough. (this is likely the goal)

Worse, they can pick whistleblowers, people who attempt to unionize, people who have harassment claims against the company, and ask it to retroactively come up with a legal justification for firing them that would pass muster if challenged in court.

It would be for sure a nightmare if it's automating the thing some companies do where they constantly hire their "worst performers" -- but they're doing it anyway with manual labor. The worse thing is that it makes it much more possible to justify firing someone for deceptive reasons in order to avoid anti-discrimination or harassment claims.

This enables much more, because screenshots to comb through for dirt exist where they otherwise would not.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#177

Post by colordrops »

simonw wrote: post #90
segasaturn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My takeaway is that Microsoft has been trying to boil the frog, but slipped and turned the temperature up too quickly. They're retreating for now, but make no mistake that Recall will slowly trickle back into Windows under another name. Every major power broker wants something like Recall to become the norm - bosses to spy on their employees, governments to spy on their citizens/enemies, and tech CEO's to collect tra…

This is a very cynical take. I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. The personal utility benefits are very clear to me - the problem is the ease with which malicious attackers might steal the data (if they can breach the system).

"cynical". That's like calling the sky blue a "cynical" take. It should be obvious to anyone that has been paying attention for a while that this is exactly what is happening. Requires absolutely zero conspiracy mindset. You are either very young or don't pay attention whatsoever. Sorry about being blunt, but I'm tired of these pollyanna naive takes that it's "cynical" to suggest that corporations and government agents want to spy on you when it's obvious to my 8 year old that they are doing it. There have been hundreds of events and leaks indicating exactly this situation that made front-page news in major publications over the last couple decades. Where have you been?

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#178

Post by tflol »

simonw wrote: post #90
segasaturn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My takeaway is that Microsoft has been trying to boil the frog, but slipped and turned the temperature up too quickly. They're retreating for now, but make no mistake that Recall will slowly trickle back into Windows under another name. Every major power broker wants something like Recall to become the norm - bosses to spy on their employees, governments to spy on their citizens/enemies, and tech CEO's to collect tra…

This is a very cynical take. I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. The personal utility benefits are very clear to me - the problem is the ease with which malicious attackers might steal the data (if they can breach the system).

You're taking about this company:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/purview/purview-compliance

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/purview/communication-comp...

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#179

Post by consumer451 »

pjmlp wrote: post #158
consumer451 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal feelings aside, Microsoft is Too Big to Suck like this, regarding security and privacy. At this point, their culture is a national security liability. We have seen some recent efforts, but how does one right such a large ship? https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/14/brad_smith_microsoft_... https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/3/24119787/microsoft-cloud-e...

The same way as .NET FOSS, MS <3 Linux and such happened, by having a captain on the bridge that actually cares to make it happen, not sure if that is still Satya though.

If I understand the modern security issues correctly, this is all happening on Azure, correct? Windows is relatively secure, but their cloud has too much legacy compatibility/tech debt?

For example, Kerberos support in Azure AD led to the some of the latest issues?

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#180

Post by jahewson »

999900000999 wrote: post #104
nimbius wrote: post #63

In summary: the only customers that matter --corporations paying site licenses-- declared this to be an unacceptable business risk. Anyone who is still using windows in 2024 and isnt a multinational business or llc gets what they deserve.

What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Speaking for myself, I dual boot mint and windows because I really like playing games and making music. Both of those are absolutely subpar on Linux. Outside of our nerd bubble, most normal people don't really want to run desktop Linux. Macs are great, but I can't really game on them.

What is this laptop that costs less than a Mac but is good for gaming?
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