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Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

reuters.com

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Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#161

Post by nehal3m »

andybak wrote: post #148
throw20240511 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and your take is quite naive. Surveillance is absolutely the purpose, overt or not. The huge push for bossware/spyware for windows in 2020+ demonstrates that the less ethical portions of industry desperately want to spy on users workstations! Eventually there will be retention laws in certain regulated industries that mandate such technologies! Why enable this potential abuse? Microsoft is trying to Sherlock the surv…

This doesn't make sense. Screen recording is trivial. Why go to this much trouble? I don't buy the "Trojan Horse" argument in this case. Occam's Razor, folks.

> Screen recording is trivial

Well yeah, but doing it by default and saving the results in a searchable way for each and every one of your users is not.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#162

Post by creata »

999900000999 wrote: post #104
nimbius wrote: post #63

In summary: the only customers that matter --corporations paying site licenses-- declared this to be an unacceptable business risk. Anyone who is still using windows in 2024 and isnt a multinational business or llc gets what they deserve.

What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Speaking for myself, I dual boot mint and windows because I really like playing games and making music. Both of those are absolutely subpar on Linux. Outside of our nerd bubble, most normal people don't really want to run desktop Linux. Macs are great, but I can't really game on them.

If someone isn't technically literate enough to install Linux, they have three options:

1. Become technically literate enough to install Linux. Distros like Fedora are very easy to set up imo.

2. Ask someone else (relatives, local computer store, etc.) to set it up for you.

3. Continue using Windows.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#163

Post by frithsun »

What's interesting to me is that AI hype accidentally got non technical people thinking and talking more about their privacy and security concerns relating to software.

There's nothing sinister about LLMs relative to the kind of data collection big tech has been up to for years and years. It's just that all the AGI spin has triggered a defensive response in people.

Positive, in my opinion. People should be approaching tech privacy concerns with fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#164

Post by Avshalom »

andybak wrote: post #148
throw20240511 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and your take is quite naive. Surveillance is absolutely the purpose, overt or not. The huge push for bossware/spyware for windows in 2020+ demonstrates that the less ethical portions of industry desperately want to spy on users workstations! Eventually there will be retention laws in certain regulated industries that mandate such technologies! Why enable this potential abuse? Microsoft is trying to Sherlock the surv…

This doesn't make sense. Screen recording is trivial. Why go to this much trouble? I don't buy the "Trojan Horse" argument in this case. Occam's Razor, folks.

Recording is trivial.

monitoring at scale, in real time? getting a concise "what did bob do on his computer all day" those are hard.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#165

Post by HaZeust »

999900000999 wrote: post #104
nimbius wrote: post #63

In summary: the only customers that matter --corporations paying site licenses-- declared this to be an unacceptable business risk. Anyone who is still using windows in 2024 and isnt a multinational business or llc gets what they deserve.

What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Speaking for myself, I dual boot mint and windows because I really like playing games and making music. Both of those are absolutely subpar on Linux. Outside of our nerd bubble, most normal people don't really want to run desktop Linux. Macs are great, but I can't really game on them.

ZorinOS is catching up FAST and QUICK with out-of-the-box gaming support, many thanks to Valve's bankroll into the problem with Proton (primarily) and Wine (secondarily) for the Steam Deck.

I look forward to see where developments can go from here, but Zorin is pretty good for a solid amount of games... Maybe not most.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#166

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

consumer451 wrote: post #130
pjmlp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From all three major OS vendors on the consumer market, Microsoft is still the one that pushes more C and C++ into production on their OS, in detriment of .NET, despite all the security discussions. All the efforts from other teams to have .NET reach Swift, Java, Kotlin levels of adoption on Windows, have always hit a wall against WinDev culture. Also the 90's spirit from features over security hasn't yet gone away f…

My personal feelings aside, Microsoft is Too Big to Suck like this, regarding security and privacy. At this point, their culture is a national security liability. We have seen some recent efforts, but how does one right such a large ship? https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/14/brad_smith_microsoft_... https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/3/24119787/microsoft-cloud-e...

Put DevDiv’s bosses in charge of WinDev.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#167

Post by generic92034 »

nofunsir wrote: post #144
neltnerb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think it is cynical to assume that Microsoft would sell this to companies as a way to do constant surveillance of their employees with OCR and LLMs used to make it easier for a manager to sift through massive amounts of data. That's just an actual use case that their true customers would pay for, I think it's awful and should be illegal under any reasonable worker protections but why would they not advertise…

It's exactly this. Development of a feature like this surely started during the WFH craze, where managers could no longer casually walk behind people who had to have their monitors facing outwards. A market opened up, and this is not the only tool for this sort of corporate surveillance. Certain Software Engineers will probably get some time without it by claiming they need Admin rights and that the system messes up…

Or you are living in a country where worker rights prevent causeless mass surveillance of employees.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#168

Post by ImJamal »

red_admiral wrote: post #129
simonw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very cynical take. I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance as opposed to personal utility. The personal utility benefits are very clear to me - the problem is the ease with which malicious attackers might steal the data (if they can breach the system).

As far as I know, a long while ago, the Islamic Republic of Iran asked Cisco to develop a filtering solution to stop their citizens from accessing undesirable content. Cisco said no. Then US companies started asking for filters to stop their employees watching porn at work, Cisco invented a centralised domain/packet filtering solution for their routers, and Iran went "can we buy one of those, please?". My take is tha…

It seems weird that Cisco wouldn't help Iran when they were indispensable in the creation of China's firewall. Do you have more details on the reasoning? Was it due to sanctions or did they genuinely not want to help Iran?

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#169

Post by dialup_sounds »

swatcoder wrote: post #69
digging wrote: post #55

This is confusing and vague to me, which I believe is exactly the intent. It focuses on security, reiterates that security is their top priority (and we know that this is untrue). What were the security problems? They don't even allude to the existence or detection of any specific security problems. It sounds to me like they're figuring out a new marketing approach, or they're softening the blow by "listening to user…

There's a much more mundane read: They invested a bunch of effort into a product the market loudly rejected. They're now withdrawing the product while they figure out what they can salvage from the effort. Key stakeholders may have a few ideas about how to proceed (ranging from "try again later" through "repurpose it" to "forget it"), but enterprises of Microsoft size make decisions very slowly so of course it's vagu…

Intelligent search for your personal data is still a feature with broad appeal, and they're bound to come back with that.

The critical blunder was in indexing that personal data by watching over your shoulder, which is both creepy and low-effort. They've got to put the work in to find a better way.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#170

Post by k8svet »

HaZeust wrote: post #165
999900000999 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you can't afford a Mac, and you're not technically literate enough to install Ubuntu ? Speaking for myself, I dual boot mint and windows because I really like playing games and making music. Both of those are absolutely subpar on Linux. Outside of our nerd bubble, most normal people don't really want to run desktop Linux. Macs are great, but I can't really game on them.

ZorinOS is catching up FAST and QUICK with out-of-the-box gaming support, many thanks to Valve's bankroll into the problem with Proton (primarily) and Wine (secondarily) for the Steam Deck. I look forward to see where developments can go from here, but Zorin is pretty good for a solid amount of games... Maybe not most.

Give me a break. Its the kernel, drm, mesa, and proton. The distro haw scant all to do with it except a bunch of newbies loudly claiming "new distro" is the best because it includes one single extra package pre-installed or something.

I will never stop being annoyed at conversations around distros. Ever.

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