Not the incident from the article, but this footage of some other aircraft doing a Dutch Roll is illustrative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tgfkGiHhxs
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Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
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Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#212Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
The post I was responding to was speaking precisely about "the least safe Boeing plane in service." The fact that airplanes are, trip for trip, much safer than planes is something I did not appreciate at the time when making my post. I expected most planes to be safer than vehicles, but Boeings falling well below average. The fact that vehicles are substantially safer than any plane, trip for trip, is far beyond what…
> You're having a failure where you keep misreading something the same way. And you are having a failure where you are not quoting what you think I'm misreading. Look at the table. First column labeled "ACCIDENT TYPE". Second row first column "All accident rate (accidents per one million flights)". Last column labeled "5-YEAR AVERAGE (2019-2023)" The data in second row last column "1.19 (1 accident every 0.88 million…
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The all accident rate was 0.80 per million sectors in 2023 (one accident for every 1.26 million flights), an improvement from 1.30 in 2022 and the lowest rate in over a decade. This rate outperformed the five-year (2019-2023) rolling average of 1.19 (an average one accident for every 880,293 flights).
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So in the table their "All accident rate (accidents per one million flights)" row is giving you two different pieces of the data. The first is accident rate (which is per million sectors) and then in the parenthesis is the accidents per million flights. And actually even that's wrong, since they actually give you flights per accident -- whoever put that table together clearly was not big on the whole accuracy thing.
So when you see "1.19 (1 accident every 0.88 million flights)" that means the rate per million sectors is 1.19, and the rate per million flights is 1/0.88 = 1.14.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dutch Roll is a coupling of yawing and rolling dynamic modes, and is a product of the aircraft's aerodynamics. If the aircraft is disturbed off a steady-state path either by control input, changing winds, or turbulence, then it should return back to it's steady-state path with oscillations that quickly dampen. Dutch Roll is a phenomenon where these oscillations grow rather than dampen as a result of out-of-phase yaw…
> This is different than the aircraft just being batted around by turbulence. Does it actually look different or is it just a different cause for similar movement patterns?
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#215This just isn’t Boeing’s decade.
Until the McDonnell Douglas management retires, Boeing will not recover. It's not a matter of an unlucky decade, it's a matter of replacing engineering with MBAing. It's just that the latency between cause and effect are long on the engineering side of this industry.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just flew a Max from Denver to Mexico City a couple days back. It was mostly uneventful, but as we were preparing to land the aircraft banked hard to the left and began to experience something akin to this...like it hit a sudden pocket of turbulence at the apex of the turn and began to pogo around. It was minor and far from inducing damage to the vehicle, but in that moment remembered where I was while clenching my b…
> like it hit a sudden pocket of turbulence at the apex of the turn I wonder if this could have been wind shear? Wind shear was deemed as the cause of the crash for Delta 191[0] on approach to DFW in the 1985. Lots of new equipment was installed after to detect wind shear. I wonder of MEX has that kind of equipment. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_191
There were no weather issues no other incidents of turbulence or jostling around. It seemed as if the plane was having problems banking at that angle.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just flew a Max from Denver to Mexico City a couple days back. It was mostly uneventful, but as we were preparing to land the aircraft banked hard to the left and began to experience something akin to this...like it hit a sudden pocket of turbulence at the apex of the turn and began to pogo around. It was minor and far from inducing damage to the vehicle, but in that moment remembered where I was while clenching my b…
I hope nobody got hurt (assume so, you may have told you otherwise). Is this something pilots get trained for how to cope with this type of incident? What happened to passengers (are they usually injured from things falling/flying around)? Boeing is getting some bad news these days, but multiple whistle-blowers in a row is the worst.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#218Wonder if mountain waves play any part in this incident? It's the only thing I can think of that could possibly generate a dutch roll without continuing flight stability issues. (They could have also turned on/off something like the yaw damper in the cockpit but that's not specifically called out int he report)
I can't imagine the standby PCU causing this incident unless there was some kind of electrical or pneumatic issue causing it to engage.
But 737 + PCU issues (yes, I know it's been redesigned) is never a good day.
Hopefully we'll get a NTSB report on this one.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#219Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the joke was worth making, the joke was worth suffering the downvotes. Have some courage in your convictions, and most importantly: don't whine about it.
My courage is strong, I’m willing to support a downvoted comment with another comment or two that I know will be downvoted to hell too…just to hold a mirror up to the humorless folk on here.
I mean obviously they were being downvoted because it’s nothing to do with the Dutch, it’s just a fart fort.