Whatever.
Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
41–50 of 102 posts
Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#42IMO it’s the reality of technology being a business, not a value-set, settling in. 1999-2020 was 20+ years. That’s about the length of a long-term industry cycle. It’s also 20 yrs of selling a narrative about tech that recruited ambitious, value-driven people who also wanted to make money. Don’t want 18 hr days at Goldman or 10 years of medical school, but want the pay? Come work 8 at and make the same pay without th…
I don't think the pay angle got serious until after like Google went IPO - somewhere around like 2005-2010. Before that, tech workers were paid well, but not so much beyond like a financial analyst. Now there's a mass market of FAANG-M jobs, perhaps like 500k jobs in total. They all pay way more compared to the average job, in multiplier terms. There has been a quantitative shift in tech worker pay at the top end in…
Which is what I meant by “want to make the same pay as a financial analyst but without the hours and awful culture?”
Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#43From my perspective of 30 years in professional tech development, there are rapidly diminishing returns for one's effort within companies.
You may see great opportunities to improve metrics within your org, but for various reasons you cannot actually achieve these goals based on your own individual effort. The reasons for failure are myriad, and I will avoid going down that path of sad tales.
Finally now, when I'm just about out of energy, I recognize that the most likely way to do something of significance or otherwise effect real beneficial change is to strike out on your own, ideally with a partner or two, and build something new. Of course that new thing will ultimately get bought by one of the bigger laggard companies who is incapable of allowing something like this to develop internally. But you accept that reality and vow to build something new after that opportunity is closed out.
At this point, we should be teaching classes on how to build great new things and get them sold off to the big slow giants. Rinse, repeat. I know there are people already doing this, but it's not well known or recognized.
Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#44Over-hiring in the zero interest years. It resulted in the hiring of non-qualified personnel and of qualified personnel with no concrete plans on how to utilize them. Either is a buzz kill, especially when the chickens came home to roost with respect to results (revenues) vs ballooned valuations.
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Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#45To me, this seems like a good sign that maybe the US norm of workaholism is finally on the decline and workers are starting to set boundaries. Work is a financial exchange of labor for money. "Super engagement" is not necessarily part of that exchange. IMO save your super-engagement for your family, your hobbies, your church, service to your community, and so on. Lifetimes are limited, how much of your soul-hours sho…
I think that last bit is the key- before US workers swallowed the myth that working harder would translate to better outcomes for the company, and then them overall. But now it’s more clear than ever corporations hoard wealth and do not let improvements trickle down to employees.
You know, whenever I see a company big shot giving some "all hands" presentation about how We All Need To Pull Together And Work Hard To Make This A Record Quarter, I can't help but think to myself, "Dude, your stock net worth just increased by $5 million in the last hour of you simply standing there, -existing- behind that podium. That's likely more money than I'll ever see in my entire life. Why exactly are you telling me to work hard and be so 'super engaged' as OP put it?"
Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#46Mostly true in my network with the exception of people working on LLMs. They are motivated by nearly religious fervor that AGI is right around the corner. But I expect that to die down soon.
Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#47Over-hiring in the zero interest years. It resulted in the hiring of non-qualified personnel and of qualified personnel with no concrete plans on how to utilize them. Either is a buzz kill, especially when the chickens came home to roost with respect to results (revenues) vs ballooned valuations.
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No, it’s not. You just perceive it that way. Try advertising a job and interviewing candidates for any technical role, and you'll soon understand the point made by that comment.
I've had people present the perfect candidate with over 10 years of experience. On paper, you'd think they could rewrite the Linux kernel single-handedly in under a week, but when asked to write a Python script to check if a word is a palindrome, they have no idea. Similarly, candidates appear to know the TCP/IP stack inside out, but when asked to set up basic AWS VPC subnets and routing, they're completely clueless. They just parrot some bargain-basement course answer that is entirely incorrect.
Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#48IMO it’s the reality of technology being a business, not a value-set, settling in. 1999-2020 was 20+ years. That’s about the length of a long-term industry cycle. It’s also 20 yrs of selling a narrative about tech that recruited ambitious, value-driven people who also wanted to make money. Don’t want 18 hr days at Goldman or 10 years of medical school, but want the pay? Come work 8 at and make the same pay without th…
Some positivity and a way out in this dynamic:
- WFH or at least hybrids enables a building or rebuilding of the social connections from neighborhoods, communities, and families. For about 2000 years, this was fulfilling to humans. From 2006-2020, Facebook became what’s fulfilling somehow. Good odds you’ll find the former fulfilling as a 101 human if you check it out. Don’t have to be a 30+ y/o with a spouse and kids either. Just takes imagination, resources (fortunately, pay is great!) and some initial introspection and imagination to figure out who you are and what you want. Then go do it. Most others never get the chance (see my Whole Foods example)
- technical knowledge and the time and freedom to think it through is a superpower to own your own life. WFH/hybrid removing commutes, to start, opened this all up. Go be a Capitalist Jr and spin up some companies. “Side hustle” doesn’t even do this situation justice. 2-5 years of work: you own your own internet conglomerate and have the next 30 years+ to benefit from it.
Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#49I'm young, so a lot of my experience is mainly from being a kid/teen that was enamored by the tech industry, to joining in on the tail end (early 2010's). In the 90's/2000's, the tech industry was seen as the place for visionaries and the hard workers who were there to change the world, to make it a better place. Google had the motto "Don't be evil", and wanted to make all of the world's information easily accessible…
The problem is all those companies realized their goals beyond anyone’s wildest expectations. But then kept going.
Facebook really did connect everyone on Earth. Google really did make all the world’s information available to everyone. Apple really did put a device in everyone’s pocket to access all that information.
But that’s also what gave us superhuman algorithms designed to suck all of your attention away from all the real world things humans need to be happy. Like fresh air, exercise, and face to face interaction.
Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
You will spend a substantial chunk of your life working. Likely a plurality of your time alive as an adult. Wanting it to be socially rewarding is reasonable.
With WFH, you get social reward from people who aren’t forced to be there with you, from the sources parent comment mentioned. Conversely, many don’t find that forced socialization you advocate for remotely rewarding and have to suffer through it for the minority that do like it. Again - a majorly depressing blind spot for the RTO crowd, or the RTO crowd devalues/dislikes their families and communities I guess? Edit…
I have an infant and a toddler, and a house small enough that I don't get a private office (I've cobbled together a DIY cubicle off to the side of a main living area).
Suffice it to say it's hard to focus on intellectually demanding work when a 2-year-old is throwing a fit because her juice box ran empty.
And I honestly don't mind my co-workers, we have a fair bit in common. It's nice to get some regular social exposure outside of kids + spouse, even if it is mostly surface-level.