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Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

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Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#31

I theorize it's the wage gap. Why bust your ass for a company that makes millions or more, when the wage you get as an employee will not even allow you to buy a roof over your head? Real estate is bought in bulk by the same people that rake in the big bucks in those companies as well. And rented out to people that can't afford to buy a house for premium profit. The same is happening online: companies are using the co…

> when the wage you get as an employee will not even allow you to buy a roof over your head?

is this actually an issue for tech workers? I don't know a single person in tech that can't afford a home within 30min of the city center.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#32
When there is no hope, operating model follows. There are various costs to convince someone to care (economic, org culture, etc). People have stopped caring for good reason: value prop decline.

No one is going to hustle for a meh deal, unless they’re naive or unsophisticated.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why employees advocating RTO for the socialization depress me. There’s a big world out there, go find it.

You will spend a substantial chunk of your life working. Likely a plurality of your time alive as an adult. Wanting it to be socially rewarding is reasonable.

With WFH, you get social reward from people who aren’t forced to be there with you, from the sources parent comment mentioned. Conversely, many don’t find that forced socialization you advocate for remotely rewarding and have to suffer through it for the minority that do like it.

Again - a majorly depressing blind spot for the RTO crowd, or the RTO crowd devalues/dislikes their families and communities I guess?

Edit - touched the usual nerve, but it’s the truth and I’ll leave it at this: Work involves people, but not forced friendships and community, in the same way leadership involves people but not friendship. People who expand past that at work tend to get burned and used by management, and have the blindspots I note, IME. People who instead expand into their families and communities don’t. And yes, you can build these community social bonds without slacking at work either. Such a false equivalency.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#34

I blame the enshittification of the Internet. So many of us work with the Internet. And seeing it turning into a pile of garbage is soulcrushing.

For me it’s not only the internet. Add climate change and the world wide shift to the right. It feels like everything is going to shit and nothing changes…

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#35
My theory is that the Great Resignation (which was moreso the "Great Job Hop") and the layoffs that followed moved a lot of people from roles that they enjoyed working in to roles that they don't enjoy, and the average happiness across the tech industry has dipped sharply as a result.

I changed companies twice between 2020 and 2024 and I've noticed this at both places. Not only is the average tenure of current employees everywhere much shorter (most of the people in the big tech where I work joined in the last 3 years), everyone works like they're only planning to stay for a short while.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#36
post #31

I theorize it's the wage gap. Why bust your ass for a company that makes millions or more, when the wage you get as an employee will not even allow you to buy a roof over your head? Real estate is bought in bulk by the same people that rake in the big bucks in those companies as well. And rented out to people that can't afford to buy a house for premium profit. The same is happening online: companies are using the co…

> when the wage you get as an employee will not even allow you to buy a roof over your head? is this actually an issue for tech workers? I don't know a single person in tech that can't afford a home within 30min of the city center.

Crying shame, I would have liked to have known you in another life

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#37
Everyone who said, "Yeah, I like computers and stuff," took a Python bootcamp and expected a $500k total compensation package after just three months. The quality of people in tech has become absolutely terrible. Many lack domain knowledge, and those who have it are frustrated, stuck fixing problems without getting recognition or finding any enjoyment like they used to. Every resume seems to belong to someone who just wants to be in tech, regardless of what they did before. It’s all about getting into tech by any means necessary. We now have project managers who can’t even turn on a computer without it catching fire, yet they are managing highly technical projects everywhere.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#38

IMO it’s the reality of technology being a business, not a value-set, settling in. 1999-2020 was 20+ years. That’s about the length of a long-term industry cycle. It’s also 20 yrs of selling a narrative about tech that recruited ambitious, value-driven people who also wanted to make money. Don’t want 18 hr days at Goldman or 10 years of medical school, but want the pay? Come work 8 at and make the same pay without th…

I don't think the pay angle got serious until after like Google went IPO - somewhere around like 2005-2010. Before that, tech workers were paid well, but not so much beyond like a financial analyst. Now there's a mass market of FAANG-M jobs, perhaps like 500k jobs in total. They all pay way more compared to the average job, in multiplier terms.

There has been a quantitative shift in tech worker pay at the top end in the past twenty years.

In other words, the past twenty years have seen the rise of Big Tech: billion-user products, trillion-dollar valuations, eating up entire industries (retail, publishing, consumer electronics, entertainment). What enabled them are software economies of scale (production + distribution), the US's ability to train and attract talent, cheap money, and access to massive markets abroad.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#39

Over-hiring in the zero interest years. It resulted in the hiring of non-qualified personnel and of qualified personnel with no concrete plans on how to utilize them. Either is a buzz kill, especially when the chickens came home to roost with respect to results (revenues) vs ballooned valuations.

[dead]

When someone says “non-qualified”, why do you immediately associate that with minorities in your mind?

Sounds like you have some racist biases to work through.

Re: Ask HN: Widespread Apathy?

#40
I am apathetic about the entire industry, as a consultant. Everybody is working on bullshit products that have no relevance whatsoever with the real world, overcomplicated with bullshit techniques like morning standups and Zoom meetings that are a total waste of time. We had a taste of freedom during the pandemic and now all we get is a mockery of it, with 99.9% companies hiring only on hybrid 3 days in the office bullshit contracts. Without touching upon the fact that any tech interview for any bullshit position is a 3-stage gauntlet you'll have to subject yourself to after winning the lottery of a recruiter randomly picking your CV out of 500 ones from younger, less experienced but cheaper devs.

The technology is ever boring. I've been studying CS papers from the 1960s-1990s and there is a lot of ingenuity and new avenues being explored. Now any random HN engineer can only ask "how is this better than Rust?" and I feel that not only we have remained stuck on languages and tech from the 1980s, we have regressed so much that most developers have forgotten or never even learned about "futuristic" environments such as Lisp or Smalltalk. People roll their eyes at these names for the simple reason that no one has been paid to improve upon these for the past 40 years, because companies only care about average productivity of the junior dev. We've spent the last 30 years reinventing C and UNIX; now the cool kids are adding coloured text in their VT100 terminals. Mindblowing.

I am still consulting because being an employee is more and more like white-collar slavery, and post-pandemic it's not even that well-paid, what with the massive influx of low-quality, low-requirement workers and the post-2008 money tap being closed. I am spending my free time devouring old CS papers, and the thought of writing 1500 lines of YAML to deploy a Kubernetes sounds such a pointless, anachronistic castle of sands built by massive tech corps that have just found a way of turning the art of computer programming into a circus of Taylorist code monkeys following a script for 8 hours a days.

Of course I'm apathetic. I'm too old for this.

/rant

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