Let's Not Call It "Computer Science" If We Really Mean "Computer Programming" • Hacker News Board

Re: Let's Not Call It "Computer Science" If We Really Mean "Computer Programming"

#201

Post by jarek » Sat, Jun 02, 2012, 2:58 AM UTC

cantankerous wrote: post #105

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting with your ad hominem, I think you took exactly the wrong things away from this article. Regardless of his writing style, his points are dead-on: 1. Computer science doesn't teach programming (with the corollary that computer scientists specifically don't want to teach programming). 2. Most people going into computer science want to learn programming. 3. Many people get fed up with the rigors of computer scie…

I agree with the sentiment that software engineering isn't computer science, but I disagree with the sentiment that software engineering is a discipline worthy of note on the same scale that we afford to, say, electrical engineering, civil engineering, or mechanical engineering. To date, software engineering is still largely a collection of (fairly subjective and contextually-sensitive) best practices. Software Engin…

> To date, software engineering is still largely a collection of (fairly subjective and contextually-sensitive) best practices.

Any engineering field is a collection of best practices, so that works out well.

Re: Let's Not Call It "Computer Science" If We Really Mean "Computer Programming"

#202

Post by jarek » Sat, Jun 02, 2012, 3:12 AM UTC

cliftonk wrote: post #183

Contrarian take on the issue: I wrote a Quake 3 mod in C++ (directional damage modification, server/client magazine+reload, and a few other things not-so-difficult things) in high school around age 17. I then did a CS undergrad at a top 6 university. I learned more about programming writing that mod than my combined experiences at school.

Yep, because programming and computer science don't have a lot of overlap. But I bet you could have written a mean linked list after the CS degree.

Re: Let's Not Call It "Computer Science" If We Really Mean "Computer Programming"

#203

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sun, Jun 03, 2012, 8:54 PM UTC

lookACamel wrote: post #191

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been mentally composing a blog post entitled, "Programming is hard, which is why I don't want to do it" about the differences between "real programming" and computer science. The thesis is that "real programming" involves solving problems that are inherently simple but have loads of incidental state and details to mentally keep track of, whereas computer science involves solving streamlined, semi-pure instances…

Please write this blog post out in full because it sounds exactly like what I've always felt but haven't been able to express properly.

Done and submitted to HN.

Re: Let's Not Call It "Computer Science" If We Really Mean "Computer Programming"

#204

Post by thenonsequitur » Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 3:28 AM UTC

tseabrooks wrote: post #23

So, I agree with this article in spirit. Lots of programmers could've benefitted from a more programming centric approach rather than a CS approach. However, this bit gave me pause. " I cannot tell the difference by watching them develop software." I can't disagree with this more. While this may be true of students who were middle of the road students in CS programs. I can't definitely tell the difference between peo…

No need to limit it to self-taught/trade-taught programmers, CS people, and EE people.

I once worked with a brilliant programmer who was studying Classics and English Literature and he had an entirely novel approach too, and brought real value to the team.

That's the cool thing about programming -- it's an abstract thinking skill, so anybody with any sort of formal training will bring their specific ways of working and thinking into the game.

Re: Let's Not Call It "Computer Science" If We Really Mean "Computer Programming"

#205

Post by lookACamel » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 1:48 AM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #203

lookACamel wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please write this blog post out in full because it sounds exactly like what I've always felt but haven't been able to express properly.

Done and submitted to HN.

Thanks. I really think the difference you've pointed out is something more people should discuss, instead of implying that CS is just like programming(coding) but with more math.

Instead most people focus on how programming isn't CS enough, or how CS isn't real-world enough and they miss or gloss over the fundamental difference between the two in regard to the type of cognitive abilities required.