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Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

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Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#21

Post by aamoyg »

alephnerd wrote: post #16
aamoyg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 6.2-meter-tall vehicle is made of carbon composite, which gives it a liftoff mass of 1,268 lb; at its heart is the 3D-printed semi-cryogenic engine that Agnikul manufactured in-house, each of which provides 6.2 kN of thrust." This is like they clubbed together processes which Russia seems to use for manufacturing of some of its Novator cruise missiles. That technology must have transferred over somehow and they…

> That technology must have transferred over somehow Nope. Russia and Israel attempted that for India in the 1990s but were threatened by US sanctions for breaking MCTR. Idk why you're so surprised that these kinds of domestic capabilities exist in India now. India is fairly poor, but R&D capabilities have been strong, and there is an actual reverse brain drain going on from the US now that GC backlogs are multi-deca…

It takes them 40 years to make a contemporary fighter jet, not all of which is in house, and they cannot make an infantry rifle, tank, or any defense equipment that their DoD equivalent is happy with outside of "ring laser gyroscopes", which was developed as a part of their guided missile program, which was made with covert and overt Russian and possibly Iraqi help.

They cannot make their own trainsets, cars, and consumer goods to fulfill local demand aside from food. India is on the road to privatizing many of its industries, but if you look that the list of GoI enterprises versus public private partnerships and the endemic levels of corruption (or else ethno-fascism) it is likely these are going to succeed anything soon. Indias largest exports are ideas and philosophies like religion, and I bet in the future it will be manufacturing and operating philosophy like Japan did with Kaizen.

India is a good place to go to offshore costs for space, and many countries do. They know how to squeeze the inefficiencies out of a process (and also not pay people, but that's another story) and bring down the costs of a mission. But there is nothing novel about the missions themselves. There is nothing pioneering, and there is nothing wrong with that. This is the case with Japan. Most of Japanese innovation is actually from US companies that they took over.

In any case, it's important to be realistic-- it's nothing to do with India being poor. They are not poor. They can afford a lot, and do a lot. Some people are in the mindset to accomplish a great deal mentally. Most people are not and still throw banana peels into the highway after eating them. No country without a basic civic sense can (in the immediate few years) have the R&D capabilities you speak of in a meaningful fashion.

Maybe in a few decades when people are more educated.

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#22

Post by aamoyg »

boringg wrote: post #19
alephnerd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That technology must have transferred over somehow Nope. Russia and Israel attempted that for India in the 1990s but were threatened by US sanctions for breaking MCTR. Idk why you're so surprised that these kinds of domestic capabilities exist in India now. India is fairly poor, but R&D capabilities have been strong, and there is an actual reverse brain drain going on from the US now that GC backlogs are multi-deca…

I don't think people are moving back to India for jobs last time I checked if thats what your implying with your reverse brain drain comment.

I mean, people move back to be close to their family, for jobs, for startup capital, cost of living, and even for the politics.

There is a former coworker who flew back to vote in the election and even have some kind of celebration because some kind of Communist government got voted out of his province.

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#23

Post by alephnerd »

boringg wrote: post #19
alephnerd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That technology must have transferred over somehow Nope. Russia and Israel attempted that for India in the 1990s but were threatened by US sanctions for breaking MCTR. Idk why you're so surprised that these kinds of domestic capabilities exist in India now. India is fairly poor, but R&D capabilities have been strong, and there is an actual reverse brain drain going on from the US now that GC backlogs are multi-deca…

I don't think people are moving back to India for jobs last time I checked if thats what your implying with your reverse brain drain comment.

Where do those laid off Indian H1B and EB1/2 move?

The reverse drain has started already for several years now (around 2021-22). Indians will still come to the US, do a BS masters, and then work in an American company for a couple years, but they inevitably face a 134 year backlog for naturalization.

You can either live in the US as an indentured servant for a company, and end up getting kicked out if you get laid off and can't find another employer. Or you can upskill as much as you can in the US, and then leave once you have a strong enough professional network.

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#24

Post by aamoyg »

alephnerd wrote: post #16
aamoyg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 6.2-meter-tall vehicle is made of carbon composite, which gives it a liftoff mass of 1,268 lb; at its heart is the 3D-printed semi-cryogenic engine that Agnikul manufactured in-house, each of which provides 6.2 kN of thrust." This is like they clubbed together processes which Russia seems to use for manufacturing of some of its Novator cruise missiles. That technology must have transferred over somehow and they…

> That technology must have transferred over somehow Nope. Russia and Israel attempted that for India in the 1990s but were threatened by US sanctions for breaking MCTR. Idk why you're so surprised that these kinds of domestic capabilities exist in India now. India is fairly poor, but R&D capabilities have been strong, and there is an actual reverse brain drain going on from the US now that GC backlogs are multi-deca…

I do agree it's a significant incremental development from an Indian perspective for India.

I think it is important for them to have this technology.

However, it is being pitched as a "world first". That's kind of disingenuous.

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#25

Post by nordsieck »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #18
nordsieck wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also has an impact in enhancing India's Ballistic Missile strategy used to combat a two-front war [2], because Missiles are to Indian military strategy what Drones are for Chinese military strategy. Almost no one uses liquid fueled Ballistic Missiles any more (I think China is the only one) because they are so operationally terrible. The eventual rocket sounds like it's a hair larger than RocketLab's Electron. Whic…

> But at the same time, I really wish that companies stopped making small-lift rockets. There's just no way for them to work financially. Making a small launch vehicle is seen as necessary to attract the level of funding needed for a medium or heavy lift launch vehicle

> Making a small launch vehicle is seen as necessary to attract the level of funding needed for a medium or heavy lift launch vehicle

I get that.

But it seems like every VC on the planet had the same idea at the same exact time because there's like 50+ small lift rockets in various stages of development. And approximately 0% of them have a shot at profitability.

I have real doubts that any of them that aren't backed by a nation-state will be able to fund raise and survive long enough to build a medium lift rocket on the back of their experience.

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#26

Post by Etheryte »

> The machine also automatically outputs a report that details any deviations during printing, removing the need for postfabrication qualification.

Anyone who's previously worked with 3D printing knows that this simply does not pass any kind of a sniff test. Both preventing and detecting internal defects is one of the, if not the hardest problem in 3D printing. There are many large companies trying to find ways to reliably solve just this problem alone. Saying that this method doesn't require any checks after production is simply false.

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#27

Post by pjc50 »

fallingknife wrote: post #10
alephnerd wrote: post #5

> feature eight engines in total and able to carry a 300-kilogram payload to an altitude of around 700 km. The launch vehicle used in May’s test was only 6 meters tall Significant military implications as well [0]. There is a significant spy-sat race going on in the region right now [1] with China, India, UAE, Saudi Arabia, US, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Israel, etc all investing in capabilities i…

> America's immigration system gets more and more rickety It's completely insane that we allow mass migration of people with no money and no skills and make it incredibly difficult for the most valuable immigrants to get in.

> we allow mass migration of people with no money and no skills

You don't? There's no visa for that category.

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#28

Post by teitoklien »

pjc50 wrote: post #27
fallingknife wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America's immigration system gets more and more rickety It's completely insane that we allow mass migration of people with no money and no skills and make it incredibly difficult for the most valuable immigrants to get in.

> we allow mass migration of people with no money and no skills You don't? There's no visa for that category.

you do, if you have sanctuary cities and entire states openly claiming they will not arrest people who break immigration law, it reduces the ability of USA to actually pass policies to take in more skilled immigrants who'll be a net benefit to America as a whole.

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#29

Post by nbadg »

alephnerd wrote: post #23
boringg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people are moving back to India for jobs last time I checked if thats what your implying with your reverse brain drain comment.

Where do those laid off Indian H1B and EB1/2 move? The reverse drain has started already for several years now (around 2021-22). Indians will still come to the US, do a BS masters, and then work in an American company for a couple years, but they inevitably face a 134 year backlog for naturalization. You can either live in the US as an indentured servant for a company, and end up getting kicked out if you get laid of…

Canada is much more immigration-friendly than the US. It also has a program to green-light and fast-track immigration for all H1B holders in the US, though for calendar year 2024 the cap of 10k visas has already been reached. But my understanding is that there's a pretty significant population of skilled workers that were planning on settling in the US permanently (or semi-permanently), and have instead relocated to Canada because of immigration difficulties related to the greencard backlog.

Europe is also an option, though it's not as pro-immigration as Canada (and has lower salaries as well).

Re: Indian startup 3D prints rocket engine in 72 hours

#30

Post by sn41 »

fallingknife wrote: post #10
alephnerd wrote: post #5

> feature eight engines in total and able to carry a 300-kilogram payload to an altitude of around 700 km. The launch vehicle used in May’s test was only 6 meters tall Significant military implications as well [0]. There is a significant spy-sat race going on in the region right now [1] with China, India, UAE, Saudi Arabia, US, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Israel, etc all investing in capabilities i…

> America's immigration system gets more and more rickety It's completely insane that we allow mass migration of people with no money and no skills and make it incredibly difficult for the most valuable immigrants to get in.

It's quite understandable, imho. Immigration is being allowed precisely for cheap labor, especially when citizens are not prepared to go through the extra hardship - for example, I remember reading that the fatalities when the bridge fell in Baltimore around 1 am, were all immigrants, all on duty at that hour.

For specialized labor, there is always a question of possible espionage and back-channel tech transfer. This is not so much perhaps for India as opposed to other technological rivals, but it may be one of the considerations in the immigration policy being counterintuitive.

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