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Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

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Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#41

Post by steveBK123 »

aurareturn wrote: post #37
steveBK123 wrote: post #33

I wonder if VCs will be the ones left holding the bag at the end of this AI cycle. You have hyperscalers "investing" in AI startups with compute credits, Nvidia "investing" in AI startups (who spend most of it on buying/renting their GPUs) and now this Apple deal.

Did VCs end up holding the bag at the end of the mobile revolution hype cycle?

What is different here is that the non-VC investors investments are being recycled back into their goods&services see: cloud credits, buying NVDA compute, etc.

I don't think we had a similar pattern in the mobile era. Did Apple ever invest in an app in exchange for App Store fee credits or some dubious scrip like that? I don't think so.

Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#42

Post by aurareturn »

jitl wrote: post #27
aurareturn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Siri queries not fall back to GPT4o in older devices? That seems weird because the inference is done in the cloud. But 100m figure seems small. There are ~100m Apple Silicon Macs sold in the last 4 years. That's not including any M1+ iPads or iPhone 15 Pros. I'm guessing maybe 250m? Still a ton of queries and usage. It's not just Siri. I believe features like optimize email response also uses GPT4o.

Email, etc, is all Apple inference, the presentation strongly implied that was on-device. The system always explicitly asks “Ok to send this query to OpenAI?” or user initiated request. I think the Apple server inference is handling things like image generation where you need a beefy guy to get results quickly, and don’t need to transmit as much user context to service the request.

I'm pretty sure there is an option to ask ChatGPT to do inferencing for Email, etc.

If I'm a paid ChatGPT user, I'd definitely choose GPT4 over Apple's models.

Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#43

Post by jgalt212 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18
jgalt212 wrote: post #7

Apple was being pressured by Wall Street to make move here, so you'd think they'd have the weak hand. However, by the time they moved, there were 3-4 vendors Apple could play off each other.

> Apple was being pressured by Wall Street No, they weren’t. To the extent there was financial pressure it was in iPhone sales.

2 of the top 3 most valuable public companies have AI front and center. Where's your evidence?

Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#45

Post by blixt »

aurareturn wrote: post #5
rpgbr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not billion(s), because Apple Intelligence will only work on Apple Silicon (Mx) Mac and iPad and iPhone 15 Pro. Also, initially only in en_US devices. I’ve heard 100 mi figure, but can’t confirm/remember where.

Do Siri queries not fall back to GPT4o in older devices? That seems weird because the inference is done in the cloud. But 100m figure seems small. There are ~100m Apple Silicon Macs sold in the last 4 years. That's not including any M1+ iPads or iPhone 15 Pros. I'm guessing maybe 250m? Still a ton of queries and usage. It's not just Siri. I believe features like optimize email response also uses GPT4o.

They’ve been explicit that only some knowledge related requests get sent to OpenAI, and only after the user has been asked “ok to send this to ChatGPT?”

If they allowed your private email contents or any other private context to leak outside their encrypted enclave (local or their new online hardware) then the entire set of privacy claims would go out the window.

Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#46

Post by xyst »

taulien wrote: post #34

From the article, it sounds like Apple aims to create an "AI App Store", where the users can choose the AI Supplier thmeselves instead of only beeing locked in to "Apple Intelligence". I think its a smart move to build an AI platform instead of beeing an AI supplier by themselves.

End state: OpenAI would probably love to see its subscription cost bundled into an Apple service plan [1]

Pitch: “add Apple Intelligence+ which includes ChatGPT/Anthropic/Bard premium subscription for _only_ $99/mo!!1”

[1] https://www.apple.com/apple-one/

Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#47

Post by xyst »

steveBK123 wrote: post #39
jgalt212 wrote: post #7

Apple was being pressured by Wall Street to make move here, so you'd think they'd have the weak hand. However, by the time they moved, there were 3-4 vendors Apple could play off each other.

It seems like Apple played this very well and are going to treat LLM the way they do search. At some point the LLMs will be bidding for placement on iOS devices, like the Google search deal.

Can’t wait to see those documents and emails to appear in a discovery as part of yet another anti trust lawsuit

Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#48

Post by Havoc »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #31
Havoc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not gonna work. The Chinese pricing is already 1/20th of oai. Not as good sure but that very much limits scope for a pure cost play. You can’t win that against state backed entities

https://apnews.com/article/china-chatbot-xi-jinping-thought-... What will the Chinese ai be able to discuss?

Thing is for 99% of usage cases this makes zero difference.

Not saying it’s right but it’s largely irrelevant. And it certainly isn’t a moat for oai

Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#49

Post by threeseed »

aurareturn wrote: post #24
threeseed wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft and Apple have had a great relationship for decades. And Satya would love nothing more than to drive Apple and Google apart.

I'm pretty sure Apple publicly said that they're also considering Google Gemini. It's possible that Apple sees it as a future app store-like revenue. You can use any AI model you want, and if you want to subscribe to Gemini Pro or ChatGPT Plus, Apple takes 30%. I was certain that Apple wants to create their own cutting edge LLM to compete with GPT4 or Gemini or Claude or Mixtral. But they've decided to instead, open…

Not sure why people keep seeing this situation through the App Store lens.

Apple has had countless partnerships over the years eg. Foursquare, Google, Sensis that don't require a 15/30% commission.

It doesn't even make sense how or why they would implement an IAP flow directly into the OS.

Re: Apple to 'pay' OpenAI for ChatGPT through distribution, not cash

#50

Post by DonnieP »

taulien wrote: post #34

From the article, it sounds like Apple aims to create an "AI App Store", where the users can choose the AI Supplier thmeselves instead of only beeing locked in to "Apple Intelligence". I think its a smart move to build an AI platform instead of beeing an AI supplier by themselves.

Can't read the article, but the way they described it in the WWDC Keynote, you _are_ locked into Apple Intelligence on eligible devices for all the stuff Apple Intelligence actually does. The "AI App Store" only comes into play for specific questions that Apple Intelligence punts on and then tells you, "I can't answer this, do you want to query an AI Supplier?" Apple is not giving you the option of selecting a back-end AI Supplier for all AI-related stuff on the device.
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