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Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

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Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#71

Post by bhaney »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #70

> This Elixir version introduces the Duration data type and APIs to shift dates, times, and date times by a given duration, considering different calendars and time zones. > We chose the name “shift” for this operation (instead of “add”) since working with durations does not obey properties such as associativity. For instance, adding one month and then one month does not give the same result as adding two months: I'm…

There's a code example immediately after your quote specifically for addressing your confusion

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#72

Post by Tao3300 »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #70

> This Elixir version introduces the Duration data type and APIs to shift dates, times, and date times by a given duration, considering different calendars and time zones. > We chose the name “shift” for this operation (instead of “add”) since working with durations does not obey properties such as associativity. For instance, adding one month and then one month does not give the same result as adding two months: I'm…

"One month" is a tricky unit because it's not always the same size. They have a good example right there. What's a month after Jan 31? Feb 28 or 29. A month after that? Mar 28 or 29.

What's two months after Jan 31? Mar 31.

Maybe you think it should behave otherwise, but they picked a way and changed the name so you wouldn't think of the addition operation and its expected properties.

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#73

Post by Tao3300 »

davidw wrote: post #64
ch4s3 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seeing salaries consistently lower than more mainstream languages That seems surprising to me as an Elixir developer. Are you looking in the US, or elsewhere?

I keep an eye out in the US and there just aren't many of them out there. And you have to be careful because some of those are * "Bob wanted to try out Elixir, so now we use it for this one microservice, but we're mostly a PHP/Rails/Java/Python/whatever shop and we'd like to rewrite it one day, because Bob left a few years ago" - places where someone wanted to play with something shiny and new. * Early stage firms wh…

Dammit that first bullet is giving me PTSD

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#74

Post by Tao3300 »

pawelduda wrote: post #10

This is it, the final piece I wanted. Looking forward to the further stages. Apart from that, the language is 100% feature-complete as far as I am concerned.

Last time I looked at Elixir, it seemed like the consensus was "you're going to need to do Erlang too". Is that still the case, or is dipping down into Erlang no longer required?

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#75

Post by julienmarie »

The last few years the Elixir ecosystem has started to become the simplest solution to so many use cases:

- Web development with Phoenix and Liveview is immensely enjoyable and fast

- AI with NX, Axon, Bumblebee

- Audio and Video streaming and manipulation with Membrane

- CQRS and Event Sourcing with Commanded

- Embedded with Nerves to make your own devices

- Mobile apps with Liveview Native ( in development )

- Queues, pipelines and batch processing, etc... natively or with GenStage, Broadway or Oban depending on your use case

but for me, the killer feature is IEX, Elixir's REPL. Being able to interact directly with my running code easily ( in dev or in production ), introspect it, debugging it, is just life changing.

Adding types is indeed the last piece to the puzzle to bring even more confidence in the code we ship.

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#76

Post by icedchai »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #70

> This Elixir version introduces the Duration data type and APIs to shift dates, times, and date times by a given duration, considering different calendars and time zones. > We chose the name “shift” for this operation (instead of “add”) since working with durations does not obey properties such as associativity. For instance, adding one month and then one month does not give the same result as adding two months: I'm…

There are edge cases near month end.

I once wrote a billing system for my own small business. If the customer signed up for a monthly plan near month end, on a day >= 28, their next billing date was always on the 28th to keep things simple.

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#77

Post by birdfood »

elbasti wrote: post #56
mike1o1 wrote: post #43

I've been using Elixir as a backend for a side project (with a Remix frontend) and it's been really pleasant and productive to work with on the backend. I appreciate how productive LiveView can be, but for my specific case I needed to handle poor network connections and LiveView was (as expected) a poor experience. I wish Elixir was able to decouple itself from LiveView in a sense in the minds of developers. Even wit…

I love elixir. I use it for basically everything. And LiveBook has become my go-to place to start building toy software. I just can't do liveview. I have a very hard time grokking it, and it has a lot of footguns. (ex: if you need to remember to perform auth checks both doing a `pipe_through` in a router and using the `on_mount` callback in a LiveView, see [0].) In fact, the fact that the above sentence has zero mean…

I've been having a similar experience trying to build an app with liveview. I've been simultaneously building the same app with Phoenix + LiveView and Dream (OCaml) + HTMX. With the OCaml stack I'm finding it really easy to follow the data flow through the whole app thanks to the compiler. With the Phoenix app I'm struggling to internalise how all the code fits together and having to navigate the code base off searching for strings alone (vscode editor tooling seems to just not work for me?). I'm also struggling to grasp how state is stored in a liveview and it isn't helped that a lot of the resources I've found online are now out of date. Going with a simpler approach of MVC sounds promising - I do want to get to the point where I'm actually taking advantage of the BEAM (I'm aiming for long running processes + user interactivity + maybe multi-user editing).

I'd be keen to hear your development workflow for building an MVC style app, what you use for the front end, and how you go about refactoring, e.g. when editing a struct which is stored in the DB and shown in a view is when I particularly feel like I'm flying blind.

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#78

Post by epiccoleman »

arrowsmith wrote: post #59
elbasti wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love elixir. I use it for basically everything. And LiveBook has become my go-to place to start building toy software. I just can't do liveview. I have a very hard time grokking it, and it has a lot of footguns. (ex: if you need to remember to perform auth checks both doing a `pipe_through` in a router and using the `on_mount` callback in a LiveView, see [0].) In fact, the fact that the above sentence has zero mean…

Shameless self-promotion - if you're struggling to learn LiveView then you could try my tutorial: http://phoenixliveview.com/

You'll be pleased to know that you got at least one sale from this post. I've struggled a bit to go from knowing Phoenix reasonably well to grokking LiveView. Looking forward to finding some time to dive into your course.

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#79

Post by bcardarella »

julienmarie wrote: post #75

The last few years the Elixir ecosystem has started to become the simplest solution to so many use cases: - Web development with Phoenix and Liveview is immensely enjoyable and fast - AI with NX, Axon, Bumblebee - Audio and Video streaming and manipulation with Membrane - CQRS and Event Sourcing with Commanded - Embedded with Nerves to make your own devices - Mobile apps with Liveview Native ( in development ) - Queu…

I'll take the opportunity for a shameless plug on LiveView Native. In addition to mobile apps we can also build for desktop, watch, TV, and even Apple Vision Pro. All using LiveView concepts, performance, and ease of development.

Re: Elixir 1.17 released: set-theoretic types in patterns, durations, OTP 27

#80

Post by epiccoleman »

julienmarie wrote: post #75

The last few years the Elixir ecosystem has started to become the simplest solution to so many use cases: - Web development with Phoenix and Liveview is immensely enjoyable and fast - AI with NX, Axon, Bumblebee - Audio and Video streaming and manipulation with Membrane - CQRS and Event Sourcing with Commanded - Embedded with Nerves to make your own devices - Mobile apps with Liveview Native ( in development ) - Queu…

The Elixir REPL is world-class, and I agree that it's a truly killer feature of the language. I miss it terribly when I write stuff in other languages (i.e. any time I'm coding, you know, for money).

Having a good REPL just removes so much of the friction you normally have to contend with in programming. You can build up ideas piecewise and test things as you go, instead of having to make guesses and run the whole damn app just to poke some troublesome piece of code. The Elixir standard library is great, and it's extremely easy to access the docs via the REPL, which I find really helps me stay in the flow. When I'm coding in Elixir, popping over to a browser window to search small questions is pretty rare, because I can usually find the answer without leaving the REPL. This also encourages me to write good docstrings for my own code!

But it gets even better, because you can run the REPL while also running your code. I mentioned above having to "run the whole app to poke a piece of code" - when you find yourself needing to run the app, you're welcome to, and you can manipulate live data (in dev, of course ;) ) and inspect what's going on in ways that you either can't do or need a debugger for in other stacks. And now, with the introduction of some typing facilities, I expect the tools to get even better.

Then there's all the fun and power of the functional paradigm while still having extremely robust ways to deal with mutability and state, and not having to deal with the syntax of LISP (sorry LISP). It's a language that just hits every note for me, I'm a huge fan.

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